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French Education
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 23/01/2008, 15:47
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Mackyfrance
Joined on 24/05/2007
Posts 33
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Re: Teenagers in France - again!
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I thought I might share something that my son's head said to me a few months ago. She said that it is unfair to bring teenage children to France - unfair on them, unfair on the teachers who are not in a position to give them the help they need, unfair on the other children who suffer while the teacher has to give extra help and support to the non-French speakers, and unfair on those other english speaking kids who will be called upon to translate and help them. She told me I should tell all my friends not to bring their teenagers to school in France but let them finish their education in their own country first. She has said that her college struggles with the 6 or so English children who started with no French and won't be taking any more. Interesting comment I thought.
As far as universities go, French universities are only the equivalent of FE colleges in the UK. As someone already mentioned, they fared very poorly in the highly regarded Jiao Tong university global league tables, where even Belgium and Switzerland had more universities in the top 100 than France. They didn't fare any better in any of the other less well regarded global university league tables. France has one of the lowest graduate rates in Europe and the highest drop out rate after Year 1 (approx 80%).
But universities aside, I'm interested in what jobs people's children find when they finish their education.
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23/01/2008, 16:31
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Scooby
Joined on 25/09/2007
Peak District
Posts 312
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Re: Teenagers in France - again!
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I think, at best, it's a huge gamble taking children in their teens to France. Comments have been made that, if the child is bright / academic, they they may be ok - but what might they have achieved in a school / college where the lessons were in their own language? My older son is 15 now and is bright and motivated (his teachers expect him to get straight A*'s in his GCSE's this summer). He may have coped with school life in France, he may have passed his BAC, he may even have passed it reasonably well - but would he have achieved the standard that he is expected to attain here in the UK?
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26/01/2008, 19:16
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Jura
Joined on 28/11/2005
Posts 805
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Re: Teenagers in France - again!
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Mackyfrance, I have news for your teacher. If said non-french speaking English kids are under the age of 16 then that College MUST accept them if they live in that particular school's Commune. The French really annoy me in this respect...they started the EU and are very much a part of it, so why should they not be prepared to do their duty and accept those arriving to live here from other countries and cultures under their EU rights? Other countries, especially those in the UK, have to accept foreign students from other non-English speaking EU countries and cope with them, and so should the French do the same with non-french speaking kids. They simply do not wish to make the effort, this I have found. I think it is pathetic that a supposedly forward-thinking nation as France maintains an education system that cannot cope with English speaking kids. In the 21st century! I mean we are speaking about English...not Mandarin here. The whole idea of the current EU is no barrier to movement; freedom of movement to all EU citizens everywhere within the EU, including nationality and that has to include language. I suggest that France get out the textbooks and start educating their teachers to speak, at least, the english language to some degree and stop pushing the Republican crap. Don't forget the same EU laws that allow the British to come and live here are the same laws that REQUIRE their children to be educated here. Regardless if they speak French or not.
Why on earth have the EU at all then? Scrap it? so then the Brits will have to sell up here and go back to old Blighty...so long as the Poles *** off back to Warsaw I suppose.
Personally, this teacher needs to clear her school's refusal to accept local non-French speaking kids with the Mairie first before they really get themselves into trouble.
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26/01/2008, 20:38
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tegwini
 
Joined on 19/09/2007
Wiltshire & Vienne
Posts 282
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Re: Teenagers in France - again!
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I was curious to investigate world league table for univeristies & discovered that the THES (Times Higher Education Supplement) one on the BBC sitehttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4379738.stm, lists the top 20 universities
1 (1) Harvard University, US
2 (3) Massachusetts Institute of Technology, US
3 (6) Cambridge University, UK
4 (5) Oxford University, UK
5 (7) Stanford University, US
6 (2) University of California, Berkeley, US
7 (8) Yale University, US
8 (4) California Institute of Technology, US
9 (9) Princeton University, US
10 (27) Ecole Polytechnique, France
11= (52) Duke University, US
11= (11) London School of Economics, UK
13 (14) Imperial College London, UK
14 (23) Cornell University, US
15 (17) Beijing University, China
16 (12) Tokyo University, Japan
17= (20) University of California, San Francisco, US
17= (13) University of Chicago, US
19 (22) Melbourne University, Australia
20 (19) Columbia University, US
Drop out rate is probably high in many of these universities, I often wonder how many of the new crop going to 'uni' in the UK pass university exams as many are very average, and often well below average these days. Having taught teenagers for decades & seeing the declining standards & increasing passes with A & A* marks I am constantly amazed!
Perhaps the French are less tolerant of medicre university students which might explain the high drop-out rate. The UK universities, many of which should be called FE/Technical colleges, but want the status of being a university, & yet admit students with poor grades. Many offer 'degrees' in various trades & crafts or even worthless topics, & many graduating from such places have no employment prospects & have wasted money & years of their lives. So many end up in 'Mcjobs'. An apprenticeship or college course would make more sense.
The French, at least , seem to be training engineers & scientists to deal with manufacturing, transport & etc in the modern world - not much is manufactured in the UK these days, & few serious engineering projects are undertaken in the UK compared with France. I recently bought a new(bog standard) trailer here in the UK (best quality/price) - sadly many of which sold in the UK are now made in France.
In fact, serious reform is needed here, but it's unlikely to happen with a Labour government.
I think, therefore perhaps I am...
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27/01/2008, 9:17
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Gemonimo
Joined on 25/09/2007
lost in the vines in the 33
Posts 204
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Re: Teenagers in France - again!
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Mackyfrance, the reason there is a high drop out rate from French universities is because everyone with the bac in his pocket has the right to a place. Insofar as one can scrape through on 'ratrappage' or sail through with a 'mention' they all have the same right to a place. The government hopes to introduce selection into universities but is meeting with resistance. As far as my children are concerned, my older daughter left university and returned to england to join the army as a linguist (she has english/french/spanish/arabic). My second daughter did applied foreign languages (english/french/spanish) but after her masters degree has gone on to train as an educatrice specialisée. My son is currently at university reading maths/physics/chemistry. This might look like a middle class success story but for the record, I am a single mother and had no financial help from my ex-husband and my children all had 100% grants. They all worked their way through university stacking supermarket shelves or picking fruit. If they hadn't gone to university and gone the 'professional' route at least there are courses and apprenticeships available. Jen
If there's no wind, row
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27/01/2008, 16:56
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Mackyfrance
Joined on 24/05/2007
Posts 33
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Re: Teenagers in France - again!
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Tegwini - you need to look at the Jiao Tong league tables, not the Times as the JT one is considered the benchmark with the Times being the pretender to the throne!
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27/01/2008, 17:19
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Scooby
Joined on 25/09/2007
Peak District
Posts 312
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Re: Teenagers in France - again!
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27/01/2008, 18:24
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Jura
Joined on 28/11/2005
Posts 805
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Re: Teenagers in France - again!
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Mackyfrance; if I was those people I would be going to the Prefecture and reporting that Maire's activities and attitudes. Otherwise they could always threaten their Maire, and Prefect, with a rendezvous in Strasbourg. And actually do it! The French, and France, are part of the European Union and so are subject to European laws whether they like it or not, just as the UK, Germany, Spain et al...unless more people take them to task on this they will never pull their socks up and act accordingly. If France wants to make it's own rules and apply them then she should withdraw completely. But you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
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France Forum » Living » French Educatio... » Re: Teenagers in France - again!
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