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22/04/2008, 15:01 magaret Joined on 17/04/2008 Posts 26 Re: Wwoofers the law and fingerprints  Washy wrote: A friend of mine has just been 'invited' to go and see the gendarmes today.  She had been offering board and lodging to a young american guy in exchange for light duties around the house she found him on a web site.  He cut wood, walked the dogs, painted a door and did some gardening.  She has now been told she has committed a crime by doing this.  According to the gendarmesonly close relatives can be deemed as helping you out, not even cousins can help with the DIY without being classed as working on the black?????  I know the French have withdrawn from the WWoofer organisation and have organised their own scheme. Now when she was at the gendarmerie she was fingerprinted and her photographs were taken, questioned about distinguishing marks etc.  She said she was not told she had committed a crime but 'could have', she signed a Proces Verbal.  At no time was she told she could have a lawyer and she said she did not really know what she was signing!!!!!!  She had a bit of a panic attack during the visit and was told as she left she should get a doctor's report and see a lawyer. In retrospect she isnow really worried. I have now been trying to find out her actual rights in this case.  Can she ask for a copy of what she signed?  Can she retract it as she did not really understandthe procedures? Did this happen in your dept. e.g. 11    Report

23/04/2008, 19:27 Washy Joined on 23/08/2004 Corbieres, Aude (11) Posts 332 Re: Wwoofers the law and fingerprints Thanks for these commentsall of you.  Wooolybanana you are very astute...............there is more to this than meets the eye, and as I came across another person locally who contributed in the past to this site I do not want to go into details, but there is also an accrimonious divorce involved. The lad was interviewed by the gendarmes and told he had nothing to worry about and he has hopped over to the Canary Islands for a break and may or may not come back. They told him it was his host who was in big trouble. The doctor I rang to get help for her yesterday already knew about her I suppose from the gendarmes.  She was confused between Notaire and Avocat so we have contacted an english speaking avocat today.  Re black working, everyone in this very poor area is on the dole and works on the black, there is a refuge for Polish workers in a village not far away and no one seems to bother them at all, although they pop up all over the place working for various people.  The most unfortunate thing is that we have a very large gendarmerie in the next village as this village is the head of the canton, although very small, and they just do not have enough to do.......they also train young Gendarmes here, we call them bébé gendarmes or gendarmettes and so often they just set up road blocks just outside the gendarmerie and stop everyone. This happens  so much it is ridiculous and people have already complained about harassement. I have had to interpret  on various occasions for brits who have  been stopped  by the  gendarmes for  paper work errors on vehicles and  non matching patterns on sets of tyres.  Several of them visitors to our farm, and I often wondered if they had been stopped more to ask what they are doing here than anything else. Sometimes things have been resolved over the telephone, but when I have been called to the gendarmerie I have to countersign the Proces Verbal as the interpreter. Our circle of friends, french and english, is quite concerned about all of this as we often get together to help each other with DIY.  Never any question of money involved, i.e; when we needed to put a concrete floor in our barn which was 75 mtrs square,  we had 3 cement mixers and 12 people here, followed by a barbeque, job done and a great social event. Now, if we apply the same rules that have my friend in trouble we have all been breaking french law, as only close family members can 'work' for you and this does not extend to cousins!!! Time for me to do some research I think, and maybe they dropped me as an interpreter as they realized I am a Conseillere in my village????    Report

23/04/2008, 22:13 woolybanana'sbrother Joined on 18/01/2008 Posts 992 Re: Wwoofers the law and fingerprints A certain gendarme mentality always believes that everyone has always done something wrong and therefore can be stopped and examined at any time. What has happened to your friend is  just another outrageous example. It is an example perhaps of the new Europe. So much one could say but better not.    Report

23/04/2008, 23:01 chris pp Joined on 30/08/2005 Vienne '86' Posts 1,677 Re: Wwoofers the law and fingerprints This sort of thing has been happening round here for the thirteen years that I've been here, I don't find anything unusual about it, it's France and the French way. French forum members please comment. Chris http://www.planetepassion.com Association Planete Passion - French Wildlife in the English Language    Report

24/04/2008, 8:23 Clair Joined on 23/08/2004 ------- Forum Moderator ------- Lot Posts 6,257 Re: Wwoofers the law and fingerprints Not sure which sort of thing you mean, Chris? The apparently compulsory visit at the gendarmerie described by the OP? The seemingly over-zealous trainees stopping all and sundry for ID or vehicle checks? A few months after we first arrived in the village, we came back from a day out to a very agitated and curious old biddy of a neighbour, who relished telling us the gendarmes had been over asking around about us, wanting to know where we lived and where we were. For the next few weeks, all the "concerned" neighbour could ask me about was "Had you been down to the gendarmerie to find out what they wanted?". My thinking was that if they needed us, for any specific reason, they knew where to find us. But they couldn't have been that concerned, as nothing happened for another 18 months, when two of them arrived and politely introduced themselves. They discussed the possibility of ETA members hiding in out area of the Lot (they were, but that's another story) and that was that. As far as checks and controls go, they do happen here too. There's an annual one in the village centre, which somehow always seems to coincide with the end of the street festival in Aurillac, usually attended by "marginals" and other unconventional youths... There was another which caught quite a few parents collecting their kids from the school without bothering to wear their seatbelts, so the gendarmes were not too popular with the locals, but then again, are they ever? Mr Clair's papers have been checked at 2:30 in the morning, when he is on the way home from his night work, but I have never been checked myself. Does that mean they know I'm French and he isn't? I think it's simply because he' s out in the car a lot more than I am, that's all. Clair, a Real Virtual French Person La vérité est si obscurcie en ce temps et le mensonge si établi, qu'à moins d'aimer la vérité, on ne saurait la reconnaître. (Blaise Pascal)    Report

24/04/2008, 8:40 Bugbear Joined on 15/11/2006 Vienne (86) Posts 3,518 Re: Wwoofers the law and fingerprints Given the huge number of un-insured drivers sharing the roads with us here I see no problem at all with roadside document checks. The roadside breathalyser stops again, are a welcome sight and should be applauded. Hiding in the bushes with hidden speed cameras, well, thats another story..........................   "Life is Short - Forgive Quickly - Love Truly - Laugh Uncontrollably"    Report

24/04/2008, 9:00 Boiling a frog Joined on 06/09/2004 Charente 16 Posts 536 Re: Wwoofers the law and fingerprints Very strange this thread. I see continual complaints from the Brits about lack of police presence in the UK,about never seeing them out and about,one of the reasons we have left the UK is no respect for authority. But Come to France and complain about the police presence,being stopped,being questioned,being visited by gendarmes.   PS In order to confim someones identity and if suspected of a crime fingerprints and photographes can only be taken on the authority of the procurateur             Boiling a frog    Report

24/04/2008, 9:58 spg Joined on 23/08/2004 Southern Morbihan 56 Posts 1,047 Re: Wwoofers the law and fingerprints  Clair wrote: Mr Clair's papers have been checked at 2:30 in the morning, when he is on the way home from his night work, but I have never been checked myself. Does that mean they know I'm French and he isn't? I think it's simply because he' s out in the car a lot more than I am, that's all. Our neighbour, who is a (gorgeous) professional pompier, used to travel every 3 days to Rennes be on duty for  24 hours then drive home. As his duty started at 7am he would leave here about 5am in the morning; he was regularly stopped by the gendarmes throughout all the 9 years he did this. We, on the other hand, catch the BF ferry which arrives at Caen at 10pm then we travel for 4 hours towards home and we have never been stopped. 'Gallic shrug icon'. Sue Computing - it's another world    Report

24/04/2008, 10:12 Clair Joined on 23/08/2004 ------- Forum Moderator ------- Lot Posts 6,257 Re: Wwoofers the law and fingerprints  Boiling a frog wrote: In order to confim someones identity and if suspected of a crime fingerprints and photographes can only be taken on the authority of the procurateur That is right BaF. More details here: http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F1036.xhtml?&n=Papiers & Carte nationale d'identité Contrôle de police judiciaire  Le contrôle d'identité de police judiciaire a lieu dans le cadre de recherches ou de poursuites d'infractions. Des contrôles d'identité peuvent être pratiqués à l'égard des personnes dont un indice laisse penser qu'elles : ont commis ou tenté de commettre une infraction, se préparent à commettre un crime ou un délit, sont susceptibles de fournir des renseignements sur un crime ou un délit, font l'objet de recherches ordonnées par une autorité judiciaire.  Le contrôle d'identité de police judiciaire est pratiqué sur instruction du procureur de la République pour la recherche d'infractions précises, dans des lieux et pour une période déterminés. Prise d'empreintes digitales  La prise d'empreintes digitales ou de photos ne peut être faite que sur autorisation du procureur de la République ou du juge d'instruction et si elles constituent l'unique moyen d'établir l'identité de la personne. La vérification d'identité doit donner lieu à un procès-verbal. La personne peut refuser de le signer. Elle peut également en demander copie. Clair, a Real Virtual French Person La vérité est si obscurcie en ce temps et le mensonge si établi, qu'à moins d'aimer la vérité, on ne saurait la reconnaître. (Blaise Pascal)    Report

24/04/2008, 11:40 J.R's gone native Joined on 16/07/2006 Picardie, Sussex Posts 1,695 Re: Wwoofers the law and fingerprints But what is a Wwoofer? Editted, decided not to be lazy and googled it. Twas what I thought so perhaps the Gendarmes may have been forced to act after a complaint, malishous or otherwise. I really cant see them investigating this operation at a local level. If someone makes a porter plainte do the Gendarmes have to follow it up and investigate?    Report

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