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17/06/2009, 17:39 parsnips Joined on 28/08/2008 Posts 433 Re: Le Conciliateur Fiscal-- clears up some issues.  Sunday Driver wrote:  allanb wrote:  Sunday Driver wrote: The 2047 instructs you to deduct the UK tax before transferring the net amount to the 2042 box TI, so no change there.  However, box TI does not differentiate pension income which may be subject to the standard 10% allowance, so how did the concilliateur suggest this deduction be applied to this specific tranche of income?   I suggest the answer is that it doesn't need to be. The taux effectif is calculated by doing two separate tax computations: one using income taxable only in France, and one using global income.  The tax on the global income is calculated "notionally" as though it was all taxable in France.  So in that "notional" calculation, any deductions - including the 10% - are applied just as they would be if the relevant income were purely French.  They don't need to be calculated for specific bits of income. So I think item 1 in Parsnips' answer is correct, although it might be better to clarify that these calculations are done by the tax office, not by the taxpayer.  The 10% has no effect on the numbers reported on forms 2047 or 2042. I don't have any experience with rental income, although I suspect that a similar principle would apply to any deductions. My point was how would the system identify whether or not an amount entered in box TI actually related to pension income and therefore apply the 10% deduction within the "notional" calculation?    The system recognises amounts entered in boxes AS and BS as being pension income and does the necessary allowance calculation, but I don't see how this can happen with box TI because it's not a pension specific field.  If the box TI total comprised more than one income source and included non-pension income, then how would the system know how much of that total to apply the 10% pension allowance to? Bear in mind also that the on-line system is designed to process declarations automatically without any tax office intervention....       Hi,      My Avis for 2007 certainly gave the 10% , admittedly I only entered one source on 2047(VII) --my pension.  But as 2047 (VII) asks for separate details of (say) rental income, then it is down to the tax office to use the 2047 information to make their calculations (otherwise, what is the point of the 2047 except as a sort of aide-memoire -worksheet, and if that is all it is, why do we have to submit it?)      I would suggest that anyone with a complex declaration avoids the online system and submits a detailed written declaration, and ,if, as is quite likely , the taux effectif is wrongly calculated (some tax agents,at least, don't seem to understand the system) they should dispute it.     I agree with SD about the difficulty of properly declaring on 2042 TI, but that is a fault in the design of the form, which we should not allow to deprive us of a fair tax assessment.    Report

19/06/2009, 19:48 NormanH Joined on 10/04/2008 Posts 1,634 Re: Le Conciliateur Fiscal-- clears up some issues.  parsnips wrote:    1. Govt pension should first have the UK tax deducted , then have the NET transferred to the 2042 box TI, and then be given the 10% standard deduction before being used for the calculation of the taux effectif----this the Conciliateur agreed fully.     .  What standard deduction? I thought you put the gross, the tax paid, and then put the net in 2042 box TI. What  is this 10% deduction achieving? You have already paid the tax on the gross.    Report

19/06/2009, 20:13 Sunday Driver Joined on 07/10/2005 Deux Sevres (79) Posts 4,065 Re: Le Conciliateur Fiscal-- clears up some issues. Retirement pensions are subject to a 10% abattement before calculation of tax.     Waddya mean it's only Saturday......    Report

19/06/2009, 20:22 Maricopa Joined on 01/10/2007 Minervois, Hérault Posts 782 Re: Le Conciliateur Fiscal-- clears up some issues.  NormanH wrote: I thought you put the gross, the tax paid, and then put the net in 2042 box TI. You do, the Impôts do the calculation    NormanH wrote: What standard deduction? What  is this 10% deduction achieving? This 10% reduction. Maricopa Never assume anything, it only makes an assofuandme    Report

22/06/2009, 7:25 NormanH Joined on 10/04/2008 Posts 1,634 Re: Le Conciliateur Fiscal-- clears up some issues.  Maricopa wrote:  NormanH wrote: I thought you put the gross, the tax paid, and then put the net in 2042 box TI. You do, the Impôts do the calculation    NormanH wrote: What standard deduction? What  is this 10% deduction achieving? This 10% reduction. but that link is to 'Pensions et rentes imposables' by definition box T1 is for revenus 'éxonorés' As tax has already been paid in the UK there is nothing to pay, so it can't be reduced by 10%... The only thing it could change is the final global ' revenu fiscale de référence' which  is useful to have if you need a credit, but in that case yu need it to be as high as possible    Report

22/06/2009, 8:11 Maricopa Joined on 01/10/2007 Minervois, Hérault Posts 782 Re: Le Conciliateur Fiscal-- clears up some issues.  NormanH wrote: but that link is to 'Pensions et rentes imposables' by definition box T1 is for revenus 'éxonorés' As tax has already been paid in the UK there is nothing to pay, so it can't be reduced by 10%... The only thing it could change is the final global ' revenu fiscale de référence' which  is useful to have if you need a credit, but in that case yu need it to be as high as possible The point is, the Impôts have to try to treat your income the same as any resident.  Therefore, if you in addition to UK pension income had French source income, then this French source income has to be taxed at the correct rate.  Therefore, although for many people it probably wouldn't make a difference, the 10% deduction is applied so that any other income is taxed at the correct rate.  This also sets your RFR at the correct level so that (for instance) those who contribute 8% of their RFR for their CMU contributions aren't overpaying. Maricopa Never assume anything, it only makes an assofuandme    Report

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France ForumLegal and Finan...French FinanceLe Conciliateur Fiscal-- clears up some issues.

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