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18/05/2008, 10:17 ErnieY Joined on 05/12/2006 W of Cahors (46) Posts 4,151 Re: Another working in the UK/ living in France thread Thanks for the clarification Will. Do I presume that you are not considerd French resident then ?   My doctor said one drink per day, I can live with that !    Report

18/05/2008, 10:51 Will Joined on 22/09/2004 Sussex & 50 (Mortainais) Posts 5,101 Re: Another working in the UK/ living in France thread I meet residence qualifications for both France and Britain. So under the double taxation agreement I pay tax in Britain (and NI) but declare it as part of our joint income in France. Will intentionally blank signature http://www.vienormande.com    Report

18/05/2008, 11:03 ErnieY Joined on 05/12/2006 W of Cahors (46) Posts 4,151 Re: Another working in the UK/ living in France thread  Will wrote: I meet residence qualifications for both France and Britain. So how does that work, is it not one OR the other   My doctor said one drink per day, I can live with that !    Report

18/05/2008, 11:24 rory Joined on 15/05/2008 Posts 4 Re: Another working in the UK/ living in France thread Thanks for all the replies. It's a muddy minefield all this. Does the EIHC cover you in the same way as an E106 or E109? I understand the dual residency thing. France would see me as residence with primary residence (plus family) being in France, whlie the UK would see me as residence through days spent in the UK (just). Residency is in the eye of the beholder! In parallel, I was trying to get through to the International Pensions gang in Newcastle but had to leave a number for them to ring back on because of high call numbers. So, once I get a response from them, I shall post an update here. Thanks again.    Report

18/05/2008, 11:30 cooperlola Joined on 05/05/2006 72 - Sarthe - home of les 24 heures du Mans Posts 6,438 Re: Another working in the UK/ living in France thread The EHIC regs are HERE  To my mind, if you read the entitlement section, it clearly states that it is not available to those who live abroad even though, as Will says, its scope is wider than old E111 used to be. "Who is eligible for an EHIC? People who are ordinarily resident in the UK are entitled to a UK-issued EHIC. It is not valid for people who are going to live abroad. " So, yes, the EHIC is a minefield.  If you can get a workers' E106 then I would do so, if I were you, as I feel it's far less open to any local interpretation of the rules and regs. Healthcare Issues Site    Report

18/05/2008, 11:56 Will Joined on 22/09/2004 Sussex & 50 (Mortainais) Posts 5,101 Re: Another working in the UK/ living in France thread If you work, and pay NI, in UK then you are 'ordinarily resident'. One of the old forms that the EHIC encompassed was the E128, which was what you had to have in conjunction with the E101 if you were working and living in France on assignment from a UK employer (though some cases, like civil servants, seafarers and offshore workers, get worker's E106 - like Ernie - or some other special arrangement). The E128 gave full access to the French health system exactly like an E106, with the possible exception that not all CPAMs would issue a carte vitale, though that does not stop you claiming refunds. As far as I know the EHIC works the same way under these circumstances, though I have never had cause to test it. However, if you spend more time in France than in Britain you could well be expected to join, and pay into, the French social security system. How this would work is even more of a minefield. In theory you may be able to 'piggy back' on to your wife's entitlement. but as you are working yourself that is not likely to be allowed, unless you could arrange to become unemployed between visits to Britain. Otherwise, I guess you would need to persuade the authorities to give you an E106. But you would probably only get that for your first stay in France, retuning to Britain to work would cancel it out and in order to get another you would need to have more than just a few months of continuous NI payments. As the rules on E106 in France have changed recently I doubt if anybody can give you a definitive answer. You may well find yourself having to get private health insurance to cover you in France, like other 'inactive' people under state retirement age with under 5 years residence and without E forms. To return to Ernie's question, it appears to be perfectly possible to count as fiscally resident in two or more countries. Here is what IR20 (see my earlier link) says: 1.4 It is possible to be resident (or ordinarily resident) in both the UK and some other country (or countries) at the same time. If you are resident (or ordinarily resident) in another country, this does not mean that you cannot also be resident (or ordinarily resident) in the UK. Where, however, you are resident both in the UK and a country with which the UK has a double taxation agreement, there may be special provisions in the agreement for treating you as a resident of only one of the countries for the purposes of the agreement... Domicile is quite a different concept, that is where the 'either/or' situation arises. This gets confusing because the French have different residence qualifications from the UK, and they tend to regard residence and domicile as much closer in concept - almost interchangeable. In the situation under discussion, things can get further complicated by the fact that UK taxes a couple as individuals, whereas in France you are taxed as a couple. For reasons like this, I would always recommend using a good accountant or tax adviser with knowledge of both French and British systems, even if your affairs seem simple. Edit - second paragraph added   Will intentionally blank signature http://www.vienormande.com    Report

18/05/2008, 12:06 cooperlola Joined on 05/05/2006 72 - Sarthe - home of les 24 heures du Mans Posts 6,438 Re: Another working in the UK/ living in France thread Thanks Will.  This is a subject which I'm grappling with at present, as we have a poor lady whose husband works for a company which is registered offshore and nobody, but nobody, can come up with a difinitive answer about where their health contributions should be paid (the company - although a large, British, reputable one - doesn't make any employers' contributions to anybody, hence the root of the problem in this case.) I agree entirely about seeking professional help.  Although they occasionally get it wrong too, at least you have some protection if they do. Healthcare Issues Site    Report

18/05/2008, 14:42 ErnieY Joined on 05/12/2006 W of Cahors (46) Posts 4,151 Re: Another working in the UK/ living in France thread Coops, if you're talking about NI contributions does it matter what the employer does or doesn't pay, it's the employees contributions which entitle him/her to an E form is it not In my own case, about 3 years ago and with the express intent of reducing employee NI, my company transferred us all to a shell company in Guernsey which immediately subcontracted us back to the original company in UK. Ultimately it's made not one iota of difference to me personally, the only difference being that technically I work for a Guernsea company, but I still pay full employee NI and got my E106 in the normal way. My company still pays some NI, not sure how much, but obviously the saving was substantial enough to warrant moving to Guernsea for ! One interesting side effect is that I could if I chose now be paid tax free but that would mean both leaving the pension scheme and foregoing the company contribution plus free 4x salary 'death in service' life cover so I've decided against that particular 'perk'   My doctor said one drink per day, I can live with that !    Report

18/05/2008, 15:08 Russethouse Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 10,140 Re: Another working in the UK/ living in France thread Are you sure ErnieY, I once had a problem claiming unemployment benefit ( I had just returned from working abroad) as my previous UK employer had not paid anything. www.quimperclub.org 99    Report

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France Forum » Living » Earning a Livin... » Another working in the UK/ living in France thread

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