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Animal Welfare, Rescue & Protection
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 14/05/2008, 9:01
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Catalpa
Joined on 23/08/2004
Southern Manche - 50
Posts 1,455
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Re: badger baiting in France
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 Dick Smith wrote: | |
I'm sure it does happen but I suspect rarely. The amount of badgers killed on the roads is probably in direct relation to what the local badger population is and how busy the road is at dawn and dusk. The wood I referred to in the previous post was very heavily populated by badgers. If I had an early morning start in spring / early summer, it was not unusual for me to see between 8 - 10 badgers foraging along the verges in a 1.5 mile stretch of fortunately quiet lane. Even so, I often used to see dead badgers on that stretch, on one sad occasion, 3 of them. I don't believe a farmer had killed them and dumped them. The badgers were just caught out by cars. They used to seem particularly oblivious to diesel cars.
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14/05/2008, 9:40
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Iceni
 
Joined on 23/08/2004
Lot 46
Posts 2,906
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Re: badger baiting in France
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14/05/2008, 10:15
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Jacqui Too
Joined on 23/08/2004
Shropshire / Dordogne 24
Posts 616
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Re: badger baiting in France
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| Iceni wrote: |
| Catalpa wrote: | |
And it should go without saying that I find digging out and baiting abhorrent.
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But is it legal ?
John
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I think we all agree that cruelty is totally unacceptable, and we have to distinguish the difference between, digging out and humanely dispatching the animal whether it is badgers, foxes or rabbits, all of which I am quite sure is legal in France. But what is not acceptable is the baiting, 'baiting' to most people means provoking the animal into fighting and defending itself from dogs etc. for the entertainment of others. And I think the the tittle of the OP is misleading in that it implies that the 'event' will involve baiting as we know it, which may not be the case.
Jackie
At least with a spell-checker I can appear somewhat educated!
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14/05/2008, 21:37
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odile
Joined on 09/05/2008
Posts 123
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Re: badger baiting in France
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Sorry for the confusion. The competition will be for badger digging- and not 'baiting' - The Departement d'agriculture et forets/Macon has given permission for the event to take place near Cluny. The diggers claim that the badgers will be released, and not killed- so no cruelty is involved! However there are many flawa to that argument:
the badgers will fight to the death rather than be caught, especially as cubs are still unweaned and live mostly underground at this time of year. Diggers use tools like long tongues, pick axes and spades to take hold of the badger- and badgers get badly injured in the process. the dogs also bite and tear them and cause horrendous injuries. Dogs also get very badly torn/bitten- they are very highly prized animals and lots of pride is taken in winning, and they fetch huge amounts of money. the badger jaw is designed to lock- so it is impossible to prize it open (most mamals can have their jaw forcefully open, like dogs for instance) so the only way to release a dog is to smash the jaw open with a spade or axe. So releasing the animals is almost more cruel than shooting them, as they slowly die of infection or starve as they can't feed. As cubs are still almost totally dependent on the mother for milk and feeding (they are born around february) - if the mother is taken and released, she won;t come back to the sett for days- thus cubs will die of starvation. Once the dogs are underground, there is no controlling them- so they will attack the cubs, tear them open or break their necks- and as the setts are dug into and the earth piled up in the tunnel, the cubs are also likely to suffocate. No cruelty indeed... they say it's just to keep tradition alive and to watch the dogs work'. At the very least, if they are going to do this 'sport' it should be done outside the gestation/lactation period, eg. between July and November. Hope this helps explain- will be glad to answer any questions- I have been working with badgers for more than 30 years. I am amazed anybody could think that I am an 'infiltrator' advertising the event... meilleures salutations a tous, Odile
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14/05/2008, 21:46
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odile
Joined on 09/05/2008
Posts 123
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Re: badger baiting in France
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Hoddy - were you ever a member of the Leicestershire Badger Group? Odile/Scraptoft
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14/05/2008, 23:56
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Jacqui Too
Joined on 23/08/2004
Shropshire / Dordogne 24
Posts 616
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Re: badger baiting in France
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| odile wrote: | | Sorry for the confusion. The competition will be for badger digging- and not 'baiting' - |
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Ah So they say they are not baiting!
| odile wrote: | |
badgers get badly injured in the process. the dogs also bite and tear them and cause horrendous injuries. Dogs also get very badly torn/bitten- they are very highly prized animals and lots of pride is taken in winning, and they fetch huge amounts of money. |
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If this is what is going on then this is badger baiting!
| odile wrote: | |
I am amazed anybody could think that I am an 'infiltrator' advertising the event... meilleures salutations a tous, Odile |
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I'm sorry if I doubted your motive for posting, but you are a new poster here and you did not introduce yourself as someone who was genuinely interested in animal welfare, we have had a lot of trolls here lately.
If you are genuinely active in trying to stop this sort of thing happening then I wish you well in helping these poor animals.
Jackie
At least with a spell-checker I can appear somewhat educated!
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15/05/2008, 9:21
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Hoddy
Joined on 23/08/2004
.....Forum Moderator..... NW Leics/SE Dordogne
Posts 2,082
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Re: badger baiting in France
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Odile, I've not been a member of the group you mention. In fact since the outrageous behaviour of the animal rights terrorists at the guineau pig farm which affected my family and the way I was threatened by some of them in Oxford Street, I won't support or join any animal organisation. It's so hard to be sure what you are supporting.
Hoddy
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15/05/2008, 9:36
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odile
Joined on 09/05/2008
Posts 123
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Re: badger baiting in France
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thanks jacqui- I have telephoned the Maire in Cluny. he is really fed up as he is totally against the event taking place but he is being attacked from all sides. Permission was given by the Departement agriculture and forets in Macon. I have spoken to 2 of their representatives and followed this up with a fax. I suppose the event will take place this year- but I so hope it won't go ahead in the future- wish us bonne chance
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15/05/2008, 9:47
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odile
Joined on 09/05/2008
Posts 123
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Re: badger baiting in France
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Bonjour Hoddy - The Leicester Badger Group and the Badger Trust (previously Federation of Badger Groups) has NEVER been involved in intimidation or any violent action - I am pleased to say. the Group was formed to fight against badger digging and baiting with dogs - we are now involved in trying to find mitigation in favour of badgers when development or road building takes place, making sure hunts don;t block setts anymore, now it has been made illegal, that farmers don;t destroy setts or fill them with slurry. And yes, to continue the fight against baiting with dogs- a most horrendous, barbaric 'sport' - sadly English baiters now go to Ireland, France or eastern countries to continue their activities, but it IS STILL happening in the UK. Diggers/baiters are a very powerful lobby, and VERY difficult to take them to court as they need to be caught (yes) red handed. Millions of pounds have been spent by the government over past 10 years to research the TB issue, and the scientists have come to the conclusion that of wholesale cull of badgers would not lead to a significant drop in TB - in fact areas where badgers were all killed for the research actually showed a signifcant increase if TB. In Northern Ireland the incidence of TB has dropped by 50% without culling - by limiting movement of cattle, better and enforced testing and simple improvements in husbandry (like covering feeding troughs at night) - whereas in southern Ireland the TB has double recently, despite heavy culling. Now farmers are requesting a wholesale killing of badgers- despite all the scientific evidence gathered by the independent scientists employed by the Government- so it's going to be a huge battle. Wish us luck -
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France Forum » Living » Animal Welfare,... » badger baiting in France
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