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19/06/2009, 23:19 teabag Joined on 19/06/2009 france Posts 12 Taxe foncier problems Has anyone any advice on how to complain to and about a Tresor Public and its total inefficiency? I hadn't had a bill for the Taxe Foncier so I went to the Hotel d'Impots and they told me that the bill had been sent to an address in the UK.  I haven't had an address in the UK for 8 years.  When we moved house in 2007 the Notaire forwarded all the details to the Tresor Public including the fact that the house was owned in my name and not a joint ownership.  I gave the Tresor all the details again, they said they had revised their records and as the tax was much higher than I was expecting I asked for a review. I filled in an H1 form complete with French address, filled in forms for delai 3 months prelevement at 202 euros a month with French address.  They took 67,67 and 68 euros instead of 202.  They sent a demand to the UK again, then they stripped my French bank account to pay for the tax.  Not only that, they fined me for their mistakes. I have been into the Tresor now 3 times, twice I got a shrugged shoulder treatment and told they 'didn't make mistakes'.  The last time I went in there, I was armed with 'avis d'impossition' for 2007 copies of forms for 2008 all of which were sent to the French address, and handed over a letter asking for the refund of the fine and an explanation of what had happened. The Tresor said I wasn't entitled to a refund of the fine, I hadn't complied with their requests and more or less told me to go away and live with the fact that I'm paying for their mistakes.  After much argument finally the agent at the Tresor backed down a little when she had finally realised that they had made one almighty blunder and said that the boss was away and he would give his decision when he came back off holiday. Has anybody any ideas on how to make sure that they refund my fine, admit they were at fault and possibly pay up compensation for all the agro they caused?  I know it's a very very long shot but somebody somewhere must have had something like this happen and got it justifyably sorted. Any help would be greatly received.  Thanks to anyone in advance    Report

20/06/2009, 6:14 5-element Joined on 28/10/2006 Languedoc Posts 1,380 Re: Taxe foncier problems Teabag, heartfelt commiserations. I have had run-ins with Trésor Public and Centre des Impots before, fairly similar to what has happened to you (demands sent to an  incomplete UK address which was also 8 years out of date and which I had never received, coupled with the fact that the demands had been sent to me in error - mistaken identity!!). I had to make many phone calls  to clear it over a period of days - both to Trésor Public (who are the strong-arm debt collecters, the ones who empty out your bank accounts to which they have complete access), and the centre des Impots, (who  have the database with alleged names and addresses of taxpayers). Unfortunately, the same events occurred again the following year, even though it was all supposed to be cleared up ( names and addresses had allegedly been altered etc). That time, it was even harder to clear it, (different emloyees, more obtuse even than the lot from the previous year!). My point is that this type of horrendous mistake occurs much more than one would imagine. I have come across a number of French people who have stories of that kind about those absurd and really distressing mistakes. If it hadn't got sorted for me, I was prepared to "porter plainte" for harassment etc... although not entirely clear as to whether to go to the procureur. What I had started to research then, was the "médiateur de la République" - there is one for each département, and he/she sorts out disputes between the people and the state. For that you have to build a complete dossier, and present it to one of the sub-mediators (I think they might be called senators) who will pass it on. As for compensatioin being paid, that never happened, even though I had demanded 1) an explanation 2) an apology 3) compensation which they might have had a good laugh about (some of my French friends thought it was hilarious that I should demand and expect any of these three...) But I did get my bank expenses reimbursed (on presenting the invoice to the Trésor Public, sending it to a named idividual within their accounts department, who had intimated that yes, I might be able to obtain reimbursement - which amounted to about 100€ for each bank account concerned). And I have a feeling that you can always utter the magic words of "Tribunal Administratif" - either that, or perhaps the "Conciliateur Fiscal", which some people on this forum seem to have experience of. Skirmishes with tax offices etc. here are one of the things that raise my blood pressure, as you feel you are really up against a brick wall in situations like these - so I wish you persistence and doggedness to sort it out - they really should not get away with it. The main thing is don't give up, and be prepared to write a number of letters to different people repeating more or less the same thing, send them with AR (of course) - and mention the médiateur or the conciliateur or the tribunal administratif. Good luck.    Report

20/06/2009, 9:39 5-element Joined on 28/10/2006 Languedoc Posts 1,380 Re: Taxe foncier problems   The Médiateur de la République site is now in English as well - http://www.mediateur-republique.fr/page.php?lg=en&rub=03 part of that site says: First of all, before contacting the Mediator of the Republic, you must make an initial approach to the government department concerned - requesting an explanation or contesting a decision - and noted that the disagreement persists. Next, referral to the Mediator of the French Republic is not direct: you must go through the intermediary of a member of parliament, deputy or senator, of your choice. You put together a full dossier, with a clear account of your problem and all the documents relating to the case. You hand this dossier to the deputy or senator of your choice and he/she will pass it on to the Mediator if he/she thinks it appropriate. However,the Mediator of the French Republic's delegates can settle a large number of problems directly and quickly.You can arrange to meet one of the delegates from your department by making an appointment over the phone or by going in person to their office - ie at an easily accessible organisation(legal information centre, public services centre, community welfare centre, etc) or to the prefecture. If the delegate cannot settle your problem, he/she helps you to put together your dossier and directs you to a member of parliament who will pass it on to the Mediator of the French Republic.    Report

20/06/2009, 14:56 parsnips Joined on 28/08/2008 Posts 430 Re: Taxe foncier problems Hi,      First port of call is the"Conciliateur Fiscal" for your department. Get all the written matter together and send copies with a letter explaining your complaint and setting out any extra costs you have been put to. I have now had two very satisfactory experiences of this system (on behalf of third parties).    Report

20/06/2009, 15:04 5-element Joined on 28/10/2006 Languedoc Posts 1,380 Re: Taxe foncier problems I read (with some delight) about your success with the conciliateur, Parsnips. I should have mentioned that in my case, the Trésor Public chasing me were from a département other than the département where I live  - which is why I did not try to go this route - but you are right, it is the first port of call under more "normal" circumstances. Thank you for mentioning it.    Report

21/06/2009, 20:59 teabag Joined on 19/06/2009 france Posts 12 Re: Taxe foncier problems Thanks to everybody for all the advice, it was much appreciated and the fight will go on.  Female I may be, English I may be but no way will some French jobsworth take my money and blame me for their mistakes. Thanks    Report

21/06/2009, 21:07 Patf Joined on 23/08/2004 SW Gers Posts 2,828 Re: Taxe foncier problems A more positive experience: We moved from one french house to another nearby in 2006 and I wrote to the Tax F. people telling them to stop taking the monthly installments from our bank account. But they continued to do so after we moved for a few months. I went into the office when I realised what had happened. They sorted it out and I got a complete refund quite quickly.    Report

22/06/2009, 0:40 teabag Joined on 19/06/2009 france Posts 12 Re: Taxe foncier problems Some Tresors are pretty good like that, a friend had the same problem with demands going to a wrong address and was refunded with not trouble.  I think it's just the office I have to deal with and the attitude of some of the male staff there who definitely don't like having to deal with females.  Unfortunate but just one of those things that happens.  On the last visit I dealt with a lady who had to keep going to ask the males questions.  I don't think they liked the fact that their mistake had been spotted and no way were they going to admit to anything, but I'll keep at it; eventually I'll get it sorted.    Report

27/07/2009, 22:42 teabag Joined on 19/06/2009 france Posts 12 Re: Taxe foncier problems OK, now I'm beginning to get really annoyed.  I wrote to the Tresor Public, sent the letter AR, should have had a signature but according to La Poste they refused to sign for the letter.  Then I got a message on my mobile phone telling me that I had stopped the prelevement - which I didn't, and no way were they going to refund the fine. No way did they think it was necessary to write to confirm this.  There was no mention of the fact that they had sent the demands to a non existant address and at the moment there doesn't seem to be any way to budge them. They made the mistakes, loads of them, refuse to admit that and are still making me pay for it.  What can I do to 1) get my money back   2) make sure they have the correct address  3) stop the same thing happening again I've notified them now 9 times, 6 times in writing and 3 verbally, even the notaire when I bought the house gave them the correct details and nowhere on the Acte de Vente or any other paperwork is there any mention of a long defunct address in the UK. Added to that, I registered on l'autoentrepeneur and the RSI have messed that up as well asking for money I don't owe because they admitted making a mistake but won't confirm it in writing.  I have contacted them several times but knowing what these departments do I'm expecting to get fines for not paying them something I don't owe.    Has anybody any advice, the whole thing is starting to make me ill    Report

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