Search Sort Posts:  Oldest to newest Newest to oldest

11/06/2009, 14:58 graemeinparis Joined on 11/06/2009 Posts 3 Tax Shocker! I lived in Paris between: January 2006 and September 2006 I worked in Paris and now live in London. I would like to return to Paris to live (maybe permanently) once I have finished my present contract in the UK. My bank (Credit Du Nord) contacted me today to say that Revenue France is trying to get in contact me with regards to an outstaning bill of tax arrears. My contact at CDN said that the sum is 15,000Euro. I can't quite believe it. How on earth would I have not paid 15,000Euros? During my time there I was informed that my money was deducted at source. Why? Because my company (an SARL, so ...... an actual French company) had not created a social insurance for me and that I was on an emergency tax band for 9months. (Like the UK when an individual doesn't provide a P45 from their last job). Again, I do not have a national insurance number for France. I earned approximately 45k euros in those 9 months, of which I seem to remember being paid a net salary (after deductions) of about 3000Euros a month. Can anyone tell me what on earth am I supposed to  do next? My French bank account is temporarily closed because I no longer live in Paris and I took my money out. It still exists, but there is "mothballed". But I have a good, cordial realtionship with my contact at CDN. If I file a tax return to try and sort this mess out, what can I do if it is true - that I owe money? Can I have the Rev France debt sent to the UK and pay for it over here along with this year's deductions (UK deductions). That is, have the tax bill sent to gov.org.uk? Thanks for advice from anyone out there. Cheers, Graeme    Report

11/06/2009, 15:28 Hereford Joined on 27/08/2004 Posts 333 Re: Tax Shocker! I am sure someone will come along with advice soon but in the meantime:  there is no PAYE (i.e.tax deducted on earnings) in France, only other things equivalent to NI and state pension contributions are deducted, and they are at quite a high rate. We think you should get back to the SARL you worked for - why did they not get a social security number for you? H.    Report

11/06/2009, 17:52 graemeinparis Joined on 11/06/2009 Posts 3 Re: Tax Shocker! Thanks H. And my reference to PAYE. I used "PAYE" just to mean "I was employed on a French contract and not brought over on an Expat contract". I used it to mean I was hired and taxed like a normal French person employed directly by a French company. The SARL told me to get social security number (NI number equivalent) and I asked them for support. The HR manager was useless. That is, every time I spoke to her she said she was working on it and waiting for a response from the authorities. She left at the end of my contract and despite leaving the company, I stayed in contact with the new HR lady who was just as vague. I didn't want to go home so soon and had hoped to spend a month hanging out in Paris and seeing the sights. However, it turned out to be a month sitting in the local employment office waiting for updates chasing my card (in the Marais). Finally, I got a green social insurance card/no. and then left. I had a job offer from another SARL (interviewed for lots more) during that extra month but without a social insurance no........ no-one wanted to hire me - I couldn't pick up a legitimate new contract so I just left France when my money ran out. The card arrived just too late. So off I went. I was furious. At one point I threatened to go to the newspaper and suddenly my card was dug out of a pile of paper on a shelf behind the front counter and handed to me. Between Jan'09 and Sept'09 I was based in Paris but spent all week on the road involved in a technical sales role fro my SARL which took me all around France and other parts of Europe (one trip to the States). I really needed HR to fix this issue for me whilst I was away but alas, it failed to happen. A colleague had said "you have to baby sit the Regie and be available to hastle them"........... for me, this was impossible. As soon as I moved to Paris I was flying all over the place. Like I said, I want to move back but there is no way I can come back if I find out that I have a screwed up credit history and bailliffs looking for me, etc. A French friend in Paris just returned my call and said that if it was 15k back in 2006 - it will be a whole lot more now. I feel sickened. I want to pay this off. I want to get resolution because my wife loves France - as do I - and we can both work anywhere in the world now. Just as long as we have a wi-fi connection and we'd love to live and raise a family in France. It's our dream and were planning to move over in summer 2010. But not with this hanging over my head. This is a nightmare. Anyone with ideas - please write back soon! Cheers, Graeme        Report

11/06/2009, 18:06 Chancer Joined on 16/07/2006 Picardie, Sussex Posts 4,081 Re: Tax Shocker! It may be that you have not been credited with the deductions that were made from your salary and in which case may not actually owe anything especially given what you have said about the Hr departrment. I would contact les impôts, unless of course I had a soupçon that I may have actually got away without paying all the dues in which case I would probably rest inconnu    Report

11/06/2009, 20:52 Hereford Joined on 27/08/2004 Posts 333 Re: Tax Shocker! Did you ever fill in a tax return in France?  They may not be giving you allowances, no tax will have been deducued from your pay so it may well be that something is indeed owing. H    Report

11/06/2009, 21:05 chessfou Joined on 15/11/2005 Aveyron Posts 621 Re: Tax Shocker! You can use the tax calculator at www.impots.gouv.fr - it offers a calc for the year 2006. A simple calc at €45,000 income shows that you would have had some €6,910 to pay (in 2007-8 - French tax is paid in arrears, like self-employed in UK). Did you fill in a tax return in 2007 for your 2006 revenue? If not, then you can't have paid any tax whatsoever (the deductions made by the company would only have been for your cotisations = NI, very roughly).    Report

11/06/2009, 22:15 NormanH Joined on 10/04/2008 Posts 1,634 Re: Tax Shocker! The original post is either a wind-up, or made by someone who has no idea of how things work in France. "During my time there I was informed that my money was deducted at source. What do you mean 'my money'? Are you referring to tax?  This is not the system used here  Why? Because my company (an SARL, so ...... an actual French company) had not created a social insurance for me They wouldn't 'create' anything It's the job of the Sécurité Sociale to issue a Socil Security number. The firm can help you or you can apply for it yourself, but the firm creates nothing  and that I was on an emergency tax band for 9months. No such thing in France (Like the UK when an individual doesn't provide a P45 from their last job). No it isn't  because it is a totally different system where you pay the taxes a year later after submitting a tax return directly. There is no equivalent of a P45. The 'Avis d'imposition' is between you and the Tax people The employer has nothing to do with your tax payments, except that for the last couple of years they have started declaring you annual income to the Tax authorities, but I don't think that that was the case in 2006 All in all it complete nonsense, and shows the perils of assuming that things in France work in the same way as in the UK    Report

12/06/2009, 6:13 allanb Joined on 04/09/2006 Posts 918 Re: Tax Shocker!  graemeinparis wrote: Can anyone tell me what on earth am I supposed to do next? (1) Hire a French accountant. (2) Get your friend at CdN to send him whatever communication the bank received. (3) Follow his advice.    Report

12/06/2009, 12:14 graemeinparis Joined on 11/06/2009 Posts 3 Re: Tax Shocker! NormanH, my original post is not a wind up. I am genuinely in a bind here. And I hold a strong position high up in public office back here in London. I want this taken care of. So please, no slagging me off. There is also a family tragedy involved during my time in France which made my wife and I very upset and blurred many of the ordinary issues we had to face during this extremely hectic time. To clarify, I started work without a social secutiry number. I remember from the time I received my pay cheques that there was an enormous amount of money taken from my gross salary leaving me with about 40-45% money in my hand. I talked to other expats at my office and they said "oh, at the end of the year, you will still have to do a tax return and you will have more taxes to pay". So I thought fine. I went to double check with payroll department and they told me that without a Social Security number a "special arrangement" would have to be made. I "assumed" - me - not anyone else that perhaps what that arrangement was would be something similar to how the UK operates. Don't ridicule me. I was brought over to France at the very last minute. I spent most of my time on the road. I was assured by my company that upon arrival they would advise me and they would provide a tax advisor to support my understanding of how things were done. I then travelled extensively, pushed continuously for support whilst I was on the road (making calls to my firm - who had offered to help). When you HR Manager says "don't worry, we'll investigate for you", one tends to believe that you are indeed being taken care of. I left France believing that the appropriate special arrangements had been made for my circumstances and never thought naything about it again. My very last conversation the HR director was cordial and she told me that there was "nothing else to be settled" and off we went. "All in all it is complete nonsense" - NormanH, I politely decline to receive any further responses from you. Everyone else, thank you for your inputs and I welcome any further thinking you guys may have. I will most defintely contact a French accountant today.    Report

Page 1 of 3 (22 items) 1 2 3 >

France ForumLegal and Finan...French FinanceTax Shocker!

(please select) Forums Home |- Search Forums |- Active Topics |- Unanswered Posts User Options |- Sign In |- Join this community |- Forgot Password About This Forum (READ ONLY) |- About This Forum Moving |- Finding/Owning French Property |- Making the Move From Outside the EU |- Long-Term Letting |- Employment Vacancies in France Legal and Finance |- French Legal Issues |- French Finance Building and Renovation |- House Renovations |-- Working with Wood Living |- Earning a Living |- NEW - Money Saving Expat |- Driving in France |- French Education |- People with Disabilities in France |- Pets |- Animal Welfare, Rescue & Protection |- French Satellite TV, French Internet and Telephone |- Health |-- Changes to Healthcare Entitlement, CPAM, CMU and Cartes Vitales |- Swimming Pools in France Owning/Running a Business |- French Artisans |- Gite Owners Forum |- Hotel and Restaurant Owners |- B&B/Chambres d'Hôtes Owners Leisure and Pastimes |- Gardening |- Sport, Leisure and Pastimes |- Shopping |- French Antiques, Arts & Crafts |- Photography in France |- Motorcycling in France |- Books and Literature |- Getting Married in France |- Pregnancy and Birth French Culture |- French Food and Wine |- French Culture |- French Language |-- French Language FAQs and Useful Links |- Wildlife/Nature/Environment |- French History Travelling to/from France |- Travelling to/from France |- Latest Good Value Deals to/from France Holidays |- Holidays General Discussion |- The Complete France Post Bag |- The Lighter Side |- Other Topics |- Forum Technical Support |- Useful Links About France/French Living Regions |- Central (Centre, Limousin, Auvergne) |- North East (Champagne-Ardennes, Lorraine, Alsace) |- North West (Basse-Normandie, Haute-Normandie, Picardie, Nord Pas-de-Calais) |- Paris Ile de France |- South East (Languedoc-Roussillon, Provence Alpes Côte d'Azur) |- South West (Aquitaine, Midi-Pyrénées) |- East (Rhône-Alpes, Bourgogne, Franche-Comté) |- West (Bretagne, Pays de la Loire, Poitou-Charente) |- Corsica and DOM-TOMs