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   28/03/2008, 15:15
ebaynut is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 22:37:30 ebaynut

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Re: DLA some movement
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A rather odd change to the website announcement has been pointed out by Grecian in this thread Confused [8-)]

Let's hope it proves to be positive rather than sinister.

This continual and seemingly never-ending worrying can't be good for anyones health!!!! Woot! [:-))]


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   03/04/2008, 7:51
Puzzled is not online. Last active: 03/09/2008 09:27:38 Puzzled

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Re: DLA some movement
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I wonder if the timing of this article is just coincidence? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=555228&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Get the outraged brigade out in force just ahead of any decision .


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   03/04/2008, 8:50
Ron Avery is not online. Last active: 24/11/2008 15:52:48 Ron Avery

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Re: DLA some movement
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This story must be true as its in the oft quoted ex- Pat Bible of what is happening in the motherland, but as there are only 60 million people in the UK how they arrive at 2.7 billion IB claimants is a bit hard to figure and don't miss the bit about some immigrants have come and got it and gone back home again as they might if DLA s paihd abroad.

However, if people are receiving money to which they are not entitled as in my experience many are in France, then the outraged brigade are right to be outraged. The figure of 12,000 IB claimants abroad seems very low to me, but then again a lot of IB claimants out here don't really live here so they can continue to claim their DLA from a relative's address in the UK.


Why not post a sensible answer, people will appreciate it more


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   03/04/2008, 10:04
Puzzled is not online. Last active: 03/09/2008 09:27:38 Puzzled

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Re: DLA some movement
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It was just the timing of the article rather than the content that I was alerted to. Especially as it may soon be announced that another benefit could /will  be allowed to be exported.


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   03/04/2008, 12:42
ali-cat is not online. Last active: 03/06/2008 07:07:15 ali-cat



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Re: DLA some movement
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Yet another well researched & well reasoned article.

Firstly, no-one can deny that there is some abuse & mal-administration of the current system which means that some people claiming incapacity benefit are currently capable of working.  This is unjust to the taxpayer & to those genuinely entitled to incapacity benefit.  However, as a decision on the capability to work or not work properly requires an individual assessment, with reference to the claimant's medical history, any speculation on the proportion of the 2.7 million claimants capable of working is merely that - speculation.

Picking up a few points from the Daily Mail article :

"Despite a crackdown on sickness handouts at home, the Government send up to £54.6million abroad to over 12,000 claimants last year" 

The implication here is that claimants abroad are treated differently from those in the UK - This is incorrect

"They require only to send Department for Work & Pensions officials confirmation from a GP that they are still too sick to take a job."

Incorrect again.  All those claiming long term Incapacity Benefit will have been assessed by a DWP doctor who will have determined their entitlement to the benefit & when that entitlement should be reviewed.

"Claimants who live abroad do not even take regular medical checks to find out if they are still entitled to the cash"

Incorrect - yes they do.

"It means the sick-note culture is increasingly becoming a key political battleground - with hard-working Britons becoming fed up with paying 2.7 million claimants"

This appears to be the heart of the issue - personal resentment.  I was a hard-working Briton until I found I was no longer able to work.  I currently receive, through Incapacity Benefit, around one tenth of what I used to pay in income tax.  In fact I still pay UK income tax in excess of what I receive from Incapacity Benefit.  I don't recall carping at paying to support the unemployed, child benefit, fertility treatment, housing benefit, income support etc and the myriad other things that I didn't personally need.  It would however have been nice is the Government had spent some of my money on research into M.E. & I might then have been able to lead a normal productive life.

"Mr Plaskett said: "People in Great Britain who qualify for contributory incapacity benefit because they have made sufficient National Insurance contributions can continue to receive their benefit if they take up permanent residence in another EU country" - "Under European law benefits acquired in one member state must be paid to those who move to another country."

Exactly!  Their previous NI contributions entitle them to IB & they are entitled to receive the benefits abroad.  Does anyone complain that the State Retirement pension is exportable?  Or Child Benefit for that matter?

"Danny Alexander, the Liberal Democrat work & pensions spokesman said; "Issues such as this leave hard-working people feeling the whole benefit system is unjust.  It completely goes against people's sense of fairness that UK benefits are paid to those who move abroad & profit from lower living costs at the expense of taxpayers."

As above - what is unfair about it?  Incapacity Benefit is an entitlement paid to those previously hard-working people who are unable to work.  Under EU law it is exportable just like the state pension.  If a person is found on review to be capable of working the entitlement is withdrawn.  As for profiting from the lower living costs - what relevance has this?  Should benefits be reduced for those living in the North of England because the cost of living is less?  If the issue is moving somewhere with cheaper housing to release capital - this strikes me as a responsible attitude.  Anyone previously working & now receiving IB will have had a substantial loss of income.  If I use my capital, which I worked hard to accumulate, to subsidise our income isn't this better than resorting to other benefits back in the UK such as income support or housing allowance?

"After ten years of neglect & inaction by the Government, it's time we had a proper independent assessments for every single IB claimant to find out exactly who can & who can't work."

"Claimants will have to take a medical test to divide them into those deemed unable to work & others judged able to work of some sort."

At present individuals are assessed by a DWP doctor on their capability to work.  If this assessment allows some to claim IB when they are perfectly capable of working then the system is flawed & this is an issue for the DWP & the Government to address.  However, replacing it with a system whereby commercial companies are paid bonuses for declaring individuals capable of working, against a policy background of radically reducing the number of claimants, will not deliver a fair system.

By all means the Government should root all the benefit cheats but please bear in mind those genuine claimants who through no fault of their own are unable to work.  No doubt some would distinguish between the principle of exporting Incapacity Benefit & exporting the state retirement pension.  Maybe those who would deny incapacity benefit to anyone moving outside the UK - usually for health reasons - should also consider themselves lucky that they were able to have a full working life rather than whinging about "hard-working taxpayers".

Mr Cat.


Many years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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   03/04/2008, 17:04
ebaynut is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 22:37:30 ebaynut

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Re: DLA some movement
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ANNOUNCEMENT MADE !!!!!!!

SEE HERE


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   03/04/2008, 17:12
cooperlola is not online. Last active: 09/11/2008 17:04:05 cooperlola



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Re: DLA some movement
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So glad that the awful wait is finally over for you all.Smile [:)]

Naysayers apart, I know people who are seriously affected by this who are genuinely ill. Why they should lose an allowance just because they live in another European country has always been beyond me.

It seems to me that those who are already here need to prepare their claims, so they don't fall through the net.  What do those affected think?


Healthcare Issues Site
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   03/04/2008, 17:27
Benjamin is not online. Last active: 09/10/2008 07:05:12 Benjamin

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Re: DLA some movement
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Thank you for that ebaynut.

The bit that really excites us is the following

If I already live in an EEA state or Switzerland, can I claim a disability benefit from Great Britain?

The Department for Work and Pensions is continuing discussions with the European Commission on eligibility conditions for people who are already living in another EEA state or Switzerland who wish to claim from abroad, either for the first time or from people who have received a disability benefit in the past which stopped when they moved to another EEA state or Switzerland.

Further information will be added here as soon as possible.


I thought this piece of legislation was only going to affect people already receiving benefit before they left the UK but this paragraph seems to be saying that further discussions are taking place which may affect a first claim if you are already living in an EU country.





Benjamin

St Malo 1-New evidence suggests mis-trial
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   03/04/2008, 18:12
ebaynut is not online. Last active: 10/10/2008 22:37:30 ebaynut

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Re: DLA some movement
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The question for us is:

Will this new interpretation (classifying DLA, Attendance Allowance & Carer's Allowance as sickness benefits) also make these benefits elligible for an E121, which would mean those affected no longer have to worry about not being able to get health care by PHI, which is impossible! Confused [8-)]

The announcement was made just late enough in the day that there is no-one available to answer telephone enquiries....strange that!Blink [blink]Sad [:(]

Also, as Benjamin pointed out, how will this affect those who lost the benefits when they moved.Confused [8-)]

Still more questions.........


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