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Earning a Living
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 02/02/2008, 0:03
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Frenchie
 
Joined on 31/05/2007
2 Sèvres,79
Posts 4,117
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Re: Moral harrassment on the work place
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I understand what you say greyman, but the management told me not to write things or make phone calls, that it is dangerous..
But I guess they meant to these women who harrass my friend and I ...
It s true that it is difficult to remember all the events and keep 100% factual and not emotional in front of the management .
I will think about it . Merci .
Happy
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02/02/2008, 0:14
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greyman
Joined on 06/01/2008
Perigord Blanc 24
Posts 97
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Re: Moral harrassment on the work place
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Hi Frenchie,
I suspect your managers told you that for exactly the reason that I think you should do it - it is a definitive record of events at the time. They can deny verbal discussions ever happened but if you have written things down and given them dated letters then you have evidence should you need it in the future.
They are right about writing it down being dangerous - FOR THEM - if they don't treat you fairly and you make a claim against them !
Do what makes sense to you, not what they tell you.
It is what it is....
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02/02/2008, 7:32
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Limousin Lass
Joined on 23/01/2007
87 Near Chalus
Posts 123
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Re: Moral harrassment on the work place
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Oh Frenchie I do feel for you having been in a similar position myself. I was very happy in the job I was doing having helped build the company up from 4 to 30 employees, I couldn't understand what and why things where happening, people who had previously been my friends ignoring me, unjustified complaints being made to the boss, derogatory remarks about my appearance being made just in my ear shot. As a consequence I had a total nervous breakdown and because of the personal remarks made I suffered near agoraphobia for about 3 months, and even today, many years later, I am not the confidant person I was before.
You have a lovely TRUE friend and I think it would probably be better if both of you speak to the principal about the situation together, I think it will give you more confidence to have someone with you that you know is suffering as well.
Good Luck, I will be thinking about you on Monday.
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02/02/2008, 9:23
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P-D de Rouffignac
Joined on 14/03/2007
Posts 96
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Re: Moral harrassment on the work place
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First of all, my deepest sympathy with what you are going through. I'd like to offer the following practical advice - I studied the French employment tribunal system as part of my UK law degree and was helpfully advised by a number of French lawyers in this area.
1. "Harcèlement morale" is well recognised under French law and has recently been highlighted in a number of cases involving a large computer company and one of the care manufacturers where some employees were driven to suicide. All working in new concrete and glass offices in seemingly ideal conditions. In serious cases involving for example damage to your health or your having to leave the job as a result of the pressures (known as constructive dismissal, as in English law), high damages are awarded.
2. If your company is large enough, first approaches could include the personnel department, the "comité d'entreprise", your union affiliated to the CGT, and/or the "work doctor". Confrontations with line managers are rarely helpful when they are part of the problem.
3. As advised already, you must document everying. One of the lawyers advising me offered these words of wisdom "In a typical French court it is a dossier that is on trial not a person". A case will stand or fall on the quality of the (written) evidence.
4. I would seek early advice from an "avocat" specialising in employment law. He/she will advise you how to conduct yourself at each stage and will eventually represent you in the "conseil de prud'hommes" which is the equivalent of the English employment tribunal. You can present your own case as in Britain but invariably a French "avocat" is used, as you can be up against highly skilled company lawyers acting for the employer.
5. Once your case is started in the "conseil de prud'hommes" there is a procedure for "conciliation", which however is rarely used and most cases go to trial. The panel of (usually four) judges are elected lay people drawn from both employer and employee backgrounds. According to my French colleagues, most cases are won by the employee - and employers know this. As a result, even taking the first steps can sometimes lead to a resolution of the problem or at least your being taken seriously.
I do hope this info may be of help to you.
P-D de Rouffignac
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02/02/2008, 9:35
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Frenchie
Joined on 31/05/2007
2 Sèvres,79
Posts 4,117
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Re: Moral harrassment on the work place
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Oh yes, this info will be of real help, because my friend and I wondered what we could do now if a " mediation" was refused within the work place itself.
I will print your post and keep it, and give a copy to my friend. I think she is even more harrassed than I am. They are trying to make her endorse the part of an hysterical woman , because she reacts when she feels what is being done or said is really unfair.
I know where I can get the advice of a lawyer, the first meeting is free.
It already has health consequences on her and even me.
She suffers headaches , I don't sleep well at night and both of us feel a big stress as soon as we get close to the work place. Which shouldn't be, because I love the work itself..
Merci encore. Bonne journée!
Happy
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02/02/2008, 10:27
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Deimos
Joined on 15/11/2005
France
Posts 2,731
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Re: Moral harrassment on the work place
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I have no specialist knowledge, but have had a job where I have felt like walking out and suing for the "Constructive Dismissal". However, I was always told that if you intend to seek compensation/damages under the "Constructive Dismissal" route then you are better doing it whilst still employed rather than after leaving. If you have departed the company I guess the burden of evidence must be that much stronger to achieve the same result.
Anyway, I'm no expert and what little I am aware of is UK and not French. Given the costs of long term sickness in France (particularly if the sickness extends more than 2.5 years (or whatever it is) I would have expected any employer to take anything that could result in sickness quite seriously. I know some/many employers take out insurance to protect themselves from the costs of "long tern sickness" but I would have thought gov financed schools would have to bear the costs from their budgets.
Ian
Copyright Deimos. All rights reserved
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02/02/2008, 12:11
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JSA Aude
Joined on 30/06/2005
Posts 205
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Re: Moral harrassment on the work place
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Fortunately I've never been in this situation but as previous posters have said it would be a very good idea to put it all in writing with copies for yourself. Perhaps if you don't feel strong enough to hand them over now keep a record/diary for yourself and maybe in the future the opportunity will arise. All the very best of luck.
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02/02/2008, 19:58
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Patf
Joined on 23/08/2004
SW Gers
Posts 2,252
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Re: Moral harrassment on the work place
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Frenchie - I'm very sorry to hear that you are so unhappy at work. Did you say that most of these persecutors are women? They can be very bitchy in a group. Just an idea - is it possible that they are trying to get you to resign so that someone they know can have your job? Otherwise I think P. de Ruffignac's advice is the way to go. Jobs are so hard to come by - hang onto it ![Kiss [kiss]](/cs/images/emotions/kiss.gif)
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France Forum » Living » Earning a Livin... » Moral harrassment on the work place
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