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Driving
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 12/05/2008, 8:51
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Sunday Driver
 
Joined on 07/10/2005
Deux Sevres (79)
Posts 2,754
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Re: Suitable insurance for France and UK
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The letter of the law is not set aside by considerations of what you describe as 'reality'...
Under the code de la route, driving an unregistered car is an absolute offence. Having had 'no intent to defraud' is no defence. The question of practically is also immaterial.
If the original poster wishes to take advantage of the six months visitor rule, then that is the time limit which is set down under law. If he considers it impractical to comply with that legal timescale, then it is a matter for him whether he decides to accept the risk of prosecution for the sake of practicality.
Waddya mean it's only Saturday......
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12/05/2008, 10:20
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Boiling a frog
Joined on 06/09/2004
Charente 16
Posts 539
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Re: Suitable insurance for France and UK
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The european commission appears to disagree with you SD.
From
TAXATION OF CARS TRANSFERREDWITHIN THE
COMMUNITY OR USED REGULARLY ON CROSS-BORDER
JOURNEYS
***
INFORMATION DOCUMENT FROM THE COMMISSION ON THE RIGHTS
AND DUTIES OF THE EUROPEAN CITIZEN
(TAXUD/255/02)
09.09.2002
The Directive provides that the exemption may be granted for a
period, continuous or otherwise, of not more than six months in
any 12 months (not necessarily coincident with the calendar year;
Articles 3 and 4(2)). This applies whether the car is used for
private or business purposes.
The Directive does not indicate what kind of proof has to be
brought to show how long the vehicle has remained in the territory
of a given Member State. Although Member States are free to
decide what proof should be brought, the means they choose have
to comply with the legislation on freedom of movement. 37 Here it
is appropriate to refer to Article 62 of the EC Treaty which
prohibits Member States from using checking methods which
require the completion of formalities at the Community's internal
borders. 38
The Commission considers that the six-month period provided for
in the Directive will generally be sufficiently long to enable
citizens to exercise in full their right of freedom of movement in a
Member State other than the one in which they are normally
resident. It is not unreasonable to suppose that, if a citizen remains
in another Member State for more than six months, this implies a
degree of permanence which allows the Member State in question
to levy the regular road tax and even require registration involving
dues (fees) in connection with the registration of that car.
However, so as to ensure respect for the principle of the free
movement of persons, the condition should be applied reasonably,
guided by common sense and taking account of its aim, which is to
prevent abuses as well as fraud.
I would suggest that in the given circumstances providing that the person is a UK resident and that the vehicle is legally taxed and insured there is no intention to defraud and as per the EU commisssion common sense applies.
Boiling a frog
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12/05/2008, 16:25
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Sunday Driver
Joined on 07/10/2005
Deux Sevres (79)
Posts 2,754
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Re: Suitable insurance for France and UK
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How dare it!
I notice that it mentions this concept of reasonableness and common sense in an information document which, unless it is incorporated in the Directive and enacted into the national law of the applicable member states, then it would appear to be for information rather than forming a legal basis. So if national law says you can stay for up to six months and doesn't specify any conditions of exemption, then that's the time limit.
"I would suggest that in the given circumstances providing that the person is a UK resident and that the vehicle is legally taxed and insured there is no intention to defraud and as per the EU commisssion common sense applies."
Rather than prolong the debate on this already well aired subject, I concur with your comment.
Waddya mean it's only Saturday......
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12/05/2008, 17:26
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geoff
Joined on 06/05/2008
france
Posts 69
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Re: Suitable insurance for France and UK
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Lets put this way,those people that wish to drive around on U.K. plates in France With no road tax or test form(and there is a lot that do) let them get on with it.
The gendarmes and the municipal police are not as daft as these brits think.
So when they get stopped and cry.
TANT PIS,
G
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12/05/2008, 19:18
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Benjamin
Joined on 21/08/2005
Vendée South
Posts 1,565
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Re: Suitable insurance for France and UK
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That's all well and good geoff but what happens when the no tax, no MOT and more importantly no insurance Brit runs into you?
Benjamin
Snips, snails and puppy dog tails
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12/05/2008, 20:03
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Boiling a frog
Joined on 06/09/2004
Charente 16
Posts 539
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Re: Suitable insurance for France and UK
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 Benjamin wrote: | That's all well and good geoff but what happens when the no tax, no MOT and more importantly no insurance Brit runs into you?
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In my experience it is more likely that it will be a non insured no driving licence Frenchie who will run into you .After all they ,the French ,are, quite suprisingly, in the majority.
Boiling a frog
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12/05/2008, 22:04
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BobDee
Joined on 17/08/2005
Reaup Lisse 47
Posts 112
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Re: Suitable insurance for France and UK
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Just to gently drag this back to where it all started, we are talking about a completely UK legal car that spends a proportion of its time in France and in the UK. This proportion is a variable that might be seven months in France and five months in the UK or even the reverse.
The original question was seeking advice on a suitable insurance company that would enable this transition to be a fully legal process. I believe it has been established that six months is the maximum that a car can be in France legally, (Probably 5 months and 29 days). In practice, given that the car cannot le insured in two countries at the same time and given that at the start of any year the owner might not know what the plans for the car might be, the solution is probably to spend five months in France, take a months holiday in Spain and then return to the UK.
Now that should be good for another twenty postings.
BobD
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16/05/2008, 20:59
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allanb
Joined on 04/09/2006
Posts 444
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Re: Suitable insurance for France and UK
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| BobDee wrote: | | In practice, given that the car cannot be insured in two countries at the same time... |
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Dumb question, perhaps, but -
Why not?
If the insurance company knows all the facts, and is licenced to do business in both countries?
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17/05/2008, 10:12
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Will
Joined on 22/09/2004
Sussex & 50 (Mortainais)
Posts 4,727
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Re: Suitable insurance for France and UK
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| allanb wrote: | ... and is licenced to do business in both countries?
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That, I suspect, is the crunch. That possibility is certainly enshrined in EU law. But being licensed means, among other things, contributing to the funds that pays out to innocent victims of the uninsured, which are organised on a country-by-country rather than EU-wide basis. At least according to items on this subject in the papers, there are no companies which are willing and able to contribute to these funds in more than one country. Which is, apparently, why French insurers like AXA, Groupama, etc operate in Britain but through different subsidiary companies.
Will
intentionally blank signature
http://www.vienormande.com
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France Forum » Living » Driving » Re: Suitable insurance for France and UK
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