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22/11/2007, 17:08 samdebretagne Joined on 19/07/2006 Posts 187 Re: Moving with a reluctant teen? - views welcome  The Riff-Raff Element wrote: For the simple reason, of course, that they may have been pretty good when they were 18 but after 20 years where they've had little or no practice they forget it all. Just like France. Actually it's not really like in France at all since there aren't even very many young people that can speak passable English. An example from an 18 year old lycée student I had today: "  'ello, my name Philippe. I 'ave dix-neuf ans. I lie-vuh (city name).   I 'ave got one brothers, he name Pierre.  My 'obbies is foot and surf." And that was from a kid who's been learning English for at least the past 8 years...    Report

22/11/2007, 17:24 Clair Joined on 23/08/2004 ------- Forum Moderator ------- Lot (46) Posts 7,806 Re: Moving with a reluctant teen? - views welcome Sadly, I have to agree with Samdebretagne I have been approached by several parents whose children are in dire need of help with their English studies. They are due to sit their Bac next year. The level of fluency is very poor and they really struggle to string sentences together. Very very sad situation... Clair Real Virtual French Person    Report

22/11/2007, 17:28 The Riff-Raff Element Joined on 23/08/2004 South Vendée - The Particularly Nice Bit Posts 1,642 Re: Moving with a reluctant teen? - views welcome  samdebretagne wrote:  The Riff-Raff Element wrote: For the simple reason, of course, that they may have been pretty good when they were 18 but after 20 years where they've had little or no practice they forget it all. Just like France. Actually it's not really like in France at all since there aren't even very many young people that can speak passable English. An example from an 18 year old lycée student I had today: "  'ello, my name Philippe. I 'ave dix-neuf ans. I lie-vuh (city name).   I 'ave got one brothers, he name Pierre.  My 'obbies is foot and surf." And that was from a kid who's been learning English for at least the past 8 years... Fair point. But some of my nine-year-olds are stormin', so there may still be hope! It's the same in the UK from what I hear - trying to find young people able to speak passable English can be pretty tough there too But I stand by what I say: I spent two years in Holland during which time I spoke Dutch pretty much all the time at work and outside. 15 years later I reckon I could just about order coffee in that language. I didn't use it and it evaporated. Whatever help might be given in the UK to incomers is by-the-by: if you move to a different land you have got to expect to have to speak the local language. Jon Doust-e hameh kas doust-e hich-kas neest    Report

22/11/2007, 17:37 raindog Joined on 26/09/2007 HERAULT Posts 796 Re: Moving with a reluctant teen? - views welcome  The Riff-Raff Element wrote: Whatever help might be given in the UK to incomers is by-the-by: if you move to a different land you have got to expect to have to speak the local language. Exactly. Or if you don't you're going to miss out on so much it would be a pretty miserable existance. Unless you only hang out with people from your own country, but then, what's the point of moving abroad? sociability is just a big smile and a big smile is nothing but teeth    Report

22/11/2007, 18:30 cooperlola Joined on 05/05/2006 72 - Sarthe - home of les 24 heures du Mans Posts 6,446 Re: Moving with a reluctant teen? - views welcome  Clair wrote: Sadly, I have to agree with Samdebretagne I have been approached by several parents whose children are in dire need of help with their English studies. They are due to sit their Bac next year. The level of fluency is very poor and they really struggle to string sentences together. Very very sad situation... I was asked to spend a few hours with the nephew of my neighbour opposite when he was sitting his bac' last year.  It was scary how utterly appalling his English was, given that at that stage he only had a couple of weeks to go before taking the exam'.  I had been under the impression that the bac' was A level standard but he certainly spoke English far worse than I spoke French at that age.  I do think rural areas have the most problems as there are so few people to converse with properly in other languages.  It's great for French learners here because it's sink or swim - but must be pretty tough the other way around. Healthcare Issues Site    Report

22/11/2007, 20:33 Cathy Joined on 07/03/2006 Mostly near Bordeaux; Sometimes near Bristol Posts 2,007 Re: Moving with a reluctant teen? - views welcome Di I have moved to France with 4 children, 3 of whom were teenagers.  The older ones were not sure of the move. So what I did was this: I rented a house for 4 months in the winter months (very cheap if you rent outside the holiday season) and I found places at a private school.  I did this using the internet.  For the house, I took a 2 week deal with an option to extend to 4 months if I liked the place.  I arrived, found the internet pictures did not live up to the reality and so moved house, again with a good deal as I was on the spot. All the children enjoyed their time at the school - we found that they made friends easily as lots of young people want to learn English and their parents were encouraging the friendships.  So we house-hunted in the last month, found something and bought it.  The teenagers now go to a technical school (ecole professionnel).  They will have bilingual qualifications.  We return to the UK every school holiday.  They have kept their best friends in the UK and, indeed, their friends are coming out to see us as they are now doing French 'A' levels and need language experience. I would recommend this approach for everyone.  Rent somewhere for 4 months (or more) and try it first, with or without reluctant participants. Cathy ----- Your children won't remember you ironing their pyjamas but they will remember you reading them a bedside story.    Report

23/11/2007, 13:57 Sigognac Joined on 23/11/2007 Saujon (Charente-Maritime) Posts 15 Re: Moving with a reluctant teen? - views welcome  cooperlola wrote:  Clair wrote: Sadly, I have to agree with Samdebretagne I have been approached by several parents whose children are in dire need of help with their English studies. They are due to sit their Bac next year. The level of fluency is very poor and they really struggle to string sentences together. Very very sad situation... I was asked to spend a few hours with the nephew of my neighbour opposite when he was sitting his bac' last year.  It was scary how utterly appalling his English was, given that at that stage he only had a couple of weeks to go before taking the exam'.  I had been under the impression that the bac' was A level standard but he certainly spoke English far worse than I spoke French at that age.  I do think rural areas have the most problems as there are so few people to converse with properly in other languages.  It's great for French learners here because it's sink or swim - but must be pretty tough the other way around.   There is quite a lot in this: - English is compulsory for all, whereas I understand A levels are on a voluntary basis. I also think there are far too many subjects taught for the Bac, but that's another story. - The French system does not encourage you to speak (bit of a hurdle for a foreign language...), and class numbers can reach 40 or more. In an ideal world, there should be language labs, and a native speaker somewhere, but in practice, there's rarely enough money. Therefore many will come out of the Lycée or even University with only a shaky grasp of spoken English, but might be able to discuss Shakespeare or some obscure grammatical point. All in all a problem of mass production rather than location. If it is any consolation, the teaching of German is even worse. - I worked as a French language assistant for a couple of years in the UK, and the A Levels do vary greatly from one school to the other. Some were very good, others... I then taught adults and had the same problem.    Report

23/11/2007, 18:34 BP Joined on 06/11/2007 Posts 37 Re: Moving with a reluctant teen? - views welcome Hello, I must say I agree with Jura on this one - I come from a country where most expats/foreigners don't know the national language.  They, however, find jobs in the tourist industry, or in university/school settings teaching English. I have been to many countries where I don't know the language - France is one of the few places where I have had locals give me attitude about not knowing their language.  I don't feel apologetic (as a lot of Brits seem to do).  I have met French people living in my country and they don't know my language - but I don't give them a hard time for that... And I especially do not allow shopkeepers in France to have a superior sneering attitude - I am the customer and I can speak gobbley-dook if I want to, if they want my money, they earn it by understanding what I need...most people back down pretty soon and start being helpful (I think it is my no-nonsense attitude but the OH says it is my sweet smile)    Report

23/11/2007, 18:45 BP Joined on 06/11/2007 Posts 37 Re: Moving with a reluctant teen? - views welcome and as a follow-up on my previous post, where i realize I didn't answer Di's question at all... Di,  have you considered moving to a big city where they have an international school?  That way your daughter can be taught in English with expat/diplomat kids.  And I assume the top universities will have programs in English...? I am not being arrogant, but I have a friend's dad who is professor at one of the well-know French university and he speaks very little French.... And as for jobs, she could hop over to London if she can't find a decent one in France...not such a big deal is it...? My advice is to move to a fairly big city, so your daughter has opportunities to mix with an international, cosmopolitan group...that way she can get used to the French lifestyle in small doses...     Report

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