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 21/06/2005, 14:24
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Bones
 
Joined on 23/08/2004
Posts 410
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FAQ - Answer from DEFRA: Is this a joke??
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After being pointed in the right direction by Ian in a separate thread, I decided to contact DEFRA re: Pet Passport.
Our dog, Lola, left the UK last August after having her rabies shot in July 2004. The stamp in the passport states that the vaccination is valid until 2007.
I had planned on going back to the UK for a couple of weeks next month and to make that possible I would have to take Lola along. However, DEFRA have informed me that under French law all dogs staying in France for longer than three months must have a rabies shot annually.
The annual rabies shot must be followed up by a blood test which is then sent off to an EU lab for testing, if all is well the dog can then travel to the UK. Being as it is that Lola is effectively due for an annual rabies jab at the end of this month I had figured that this unusual situation might not turn out to be such a big problem....until I realised that the dog is forbidden to reenter the UK for no less than six months after having a successful test result.
This is nuts. What's the point in validating a vaccination for three years in the UK (don't forget this is stated in a passport - for travel purposes!) only to have the 'valid to' period made void when you actually leave the UK??
I can't wait to find out the reason for the six month wait either, think about it: according to DEFRA it's all down to French law - but I'm not attempting to enter France, I'm leaving it, so surely the country I'm entering should be more concerned about whether Lola is vaccinated and, according to the UK regulations, she is covered. So perhaps the French don't recognise a rabies vaccination as being absolutely valid until six months after the actual jab - in which case shouldn't every dog in France spend six months of the year in quarantine, so as to ensure they don't go off infecting each other? Also, shouldn't Lola therefore have had to wait for six months after having her UK jab before entering France? Or perhaps it takes the lab six months to post the results, which - considering it's the EU, would be the most likely reason in this most unlikely of farces.
I'll go out on a limb and postulate that the six month period was a stipulation made by the UK when the EU got together and decided to scrap the six month UK quarantine regulation for dogs entering Britain. Or perhaps that's just an ill informed opinion. Either way I'm stuffed, and confused.
One last point: Perhaps there is more chance of your dog catching rabies in France and maybe the vaccination loses it's effectiveness after a few infections - hence the annual rabies jab over here. But French law (according to DEFRA it's all down to the French...) allows dogs to enter France for up to three months without being subject to an annual jab, thus the three year 'valid to' date in your UK pet passport would indeed remain valid for that period.... what happens then if the dog is infected whilst in France for just a weekend and then reenters France from the UK the very next weekend, and so on? It's entirely possible! Okay I'm conflating my arguments (and losing it somewhat) but if there are any vet's out there who can provide a sound scientific reason for any the above - I'd be delighted to hear from you! 
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21/06/2005, 14:52
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Teamedup
Joined on 23/08/2004
Posts 5,950
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RE: Answer from DEFRA: Is this a joke??
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For all I couldn't quite remember everything you have stated Bones, all you have said has jogged my memory and others have gone through this before. If you were simply holidaying in France for say a month it would have been OK. The problem occurs when the animal becomes a french resident. It is then treat like any french animal and has to start the procedure as any french animal would. Whether people have managed to get around this I don't know. But it is what I had understood to be the case from the beginning. I know that you mentioned french law. I have a feeling this was part and parcel of the initial agreement made between the countries involved prior to doing away with quarantine that any animal entering the UK from an EU country would have gone through these stringent controls. Once your animal has been through the mill and had the blood test etc, as long as you get the next anti rabies jab done before the next due date then there are no more blood tests to be done. If you don't then the procedure with it's 'waits' starts again. And you did the right thing to contact DEFRA. Their reply should be posted as a FAQ at the top of the home page on here.
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21/06/2005, 22:09
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Bones
Joined on 23/08/2004
Posts 410
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RE: Answer from DEFRA: Is this a joke??
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Well thanks for your replies. I know I included far too many opinions and queries for just one post - but even having sat on the reply for a week I can't seem to assimilate the madness! First reply echoed what I have inferred from the six month wait shenanigans: that the Brits (probably) successfully lobbied for the six month wait - in my opinion more out of spite and stubbourness than anything else..."Everything to lose/nothing to gain - left with what we came with". The second post answered my wishes and offered the opinion of a French vet: he/she thinks it's all a load of B.S. and I'm happy to have that confirmed. According to teamedup I'll only have to sort out the first six month wait and after that it shouldn't be a problem. Nice to hear, was worrying that I could only visit the UK twice a year at predetermined times!! Cheers very much. 
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21/06/2005, 22:40
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Bones
Joined on 23/08/2004
Posts 410
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RE: Answer from DEFRA: Is this a joke??
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It was suggested that the following be attached to the FAQ - but there isn't one for pets, so here it is. **Note the reference to 'National law in France'...no mention of Britain's murky hand in this, so I've replied with a query regarding the six month wait: I bet it's down to the UK. I've also received a PM to ask if this law pertains also to cats - according to this reply it does. As your dog entered France last August your dog will now be subject to
annual rabies vaccinations as this is a National law in France which
applies to cats and dogs that have spent more than three months at any
one time in France.
If a year has passed or is about to pass since your dog was last
vaccinated for rabies your dog will need a rabies booster and then a
blood test. The blood sample must be sent to an EU Recognised Blood
Testing Laboratory for testing and your dog cannot enter the UK until
six months from the date the blood was drawn which lead to a successful
result.
Your dog will then need to be treated for ticks and tapeworms between 24
and 48 hours before checking in to depart to the UK on an approved route
with an approved carrier.
You are not required to carry any information with you on entering the
UK regarding any other vaccinations your dog has received other than for
rabies.
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21/06/2005, 22:48
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Teamedup
Joined on 23/08/2004
Posts 5,950
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RE: Answer from DEFRA: Is this a joke??
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You only have this six month thing to do once, believe me you do. The date of the test gets marked in the passport, as does the date when the next vaccination is due and as long as your respect this date, then you are fine. Prior to these new passports the date of the blood test would be marked on the forms and not only the date of the blood test, but where it was carried out. Our dogs blood test was done at the end of August 2001. We haven't needed to restart the whole process since. We must have been back with her about 7 or 8 times since 2002. And this six month thing. This must have been an international agreement, that must have made sense to the bloody politicians or functionaires who decided it at the time. And I for one was happy enough that they came to some agreement, even though there was the six month delay initially. Meant we could travel with our dog.
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21/06/2005, 23:41
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Deimos
Joined on 15/11/2005
France
Posts 2,731
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RE: Answer from DEFRA: Is this a joke??
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The 6 month wait after the blood sample that shows adequate antibodies was taken is because the incubation period for rabies is reckoned to be 6 months. Thus, in theory it is possible that your dog may have rabies and yet be fighting the disease (as it has adequate antibodies), yet could still pass the disease on. This is the theory – though in practice I believe it is a pretty low risk (particularly as France is rabies free).
The 6 month wait is nothing to do with the French but is a requirement of DEFRA (the UK). You are quite right in that the French really could not give a monkeys about dogs leaving France. As you say countries are only concerned about animals entering their country and it is only the UK (and Ireland and Denmark – I think) that require the blood test and 6 month wait.
The 6 month wait is only a “one off” provided you keep the boosters up-to-date. I believe that in France, there is no blood test and to travel internationally (or rather enter France) there is a wait of one month after the 1st vaccination (boosters just keep the dog’s immunity “topped-up”).
The blood test I had done for my British dog in the UK took several months to get back (but I was in no rush). The blood test I had done in France for my French pup took only a few weeks for the results (and was quite a bit cheaper that the UK one).
The 6 month rule is a real pain. In practice, I would expect a UK vet to recommend the blood test when vaccinating against rabies in the UK (as, as far as I am aware rabies vaccination is not routine and only done for dogs leaving the UK – hence the need for a blood test for the return). However, I would get the test done a.s.a.p. and start the 6 months a.s.a.p.
My understanding is that in France rabies vaccinations are annual. This is just French practice and the same vaccine used in the UK might be rated as being valid for longer. However, my understanding is that, for the blood test, etc. to be OK, you need keep the rabies boosters as indicated in your Pet Passport (valid until date). The DEFRA web site says this. If your dog is vaccinated in UK, then the valid to date will probably be two (or more) years after the booster. If vaccinated in France it will almost certainly be only 1 year.
However, it seems that the rabies vaccination certificate issued by French vets have quite a lot of importance in France, so I would recommend having a rabies vaccination 1year after the last booster and get a French certificate. It is the French certificate that the police will want to see if they find/arrest your dog (or so I am told).
When my British dog got his first rabies vaccination in France they would only give him a Blue certificate (despite a complete record of UK rabies boosters each year (Blue certificate meaning 1st year). He now has a Pink one (2nd and subsequent years). When I got his Pet Passport in France, it took the vets 4 hours going through his UK rabies booster record to validate that all was OK back to the blood test (plus a lot of telephone calls to the veterinary authorities). The do not seem to like UK rabies vaccination certificates. You will probably have better luck with a Pet Passport.
The “3 month thing” is that after your dog has been in France for 3 months he/she becomes a French resident and must be registered with the SCC. This is done through your vet and some find it easy, others harder. I have now lived here for over a year and a half and have been totally unsuccessful in getting my British dog registered. Its actually quite fun now. Every time I go to the vet I get a different reason why I do not need to (a bit like the Monty Python Cheese Shop game). They now actually accept he should be registered and are getting the right forms.
Rabies is pretty rare in France (a few incidents a year in a really bad year and normally through illegally imported dogs). When there is an incident they really react.
Copyright Deimos. All rights reserved
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22/06/2005, 0:00
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Teamedup
Joined on 23/08/2004
Posts 5,950
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RE: Answer from DEFRA: Is this a joke??
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Deimos, you have had a right carry on. For us it was relatively simple with our dog being born in France, all we had to do was allow about 9months to really get everything sorted out and that was it. I think what comes out of this is that after three months residency then maybe people should go and see the vet and start getting their animal registered as a french resident. Maybe once that is done the rest might be easier later. Would that have helped you Deimos?
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22/06/2005, 8:46
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Deimos
Joined on 15/11/2005
France
Posts 2,731
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RE: Answer from DEFRA: Is this a joke??
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Re: Pet Passports
My main problem came for my visit to the UK for last Christmas. DEFRA had told everybody that the old paperwork could no longer be issued (hence my French vets would not issue it as DEFRA had said it was no good) and yet there were no Pet Passports available in France. Both dogs were complying fine (blood tests, 6 month waits, etc.), I just could not get the paperwork necessary. British dog came over with everything (blood tests, 6 month wait, etc.) and French dog went through everything no problems.
The 4hr checking paperwork was probably due to the fact that they decided to also give me French PETS paperwork (old forms) and they were being thorough as they were effectively certifying a rabies vaccination record back to the blood test time and had never seen one of the UK rabies vaccination records (for some reason on a different certificate card to the other UK vaccination record).
Re: Registration
The area I live does not have many British residents and whilst the vets seem very familiar with Pet Passport requirements (holiday makers/holiday homes ?) I think I am the first to ask about registering a British/foreign dog with the SCC. It all a good laugh really as they are very “good humoured” vets.
What was interesting (to me) was how the vet’s attitude to me changed after my first visit with my French dog. Up to that point, visiting with my British dog they had been OK and “professional”. Then, once they scanned the microchip on my French pup I got an immediate comment “She’s French” (they noticed from the prefix on the chip id number) and their entire attitude changed – much more friendly, far more jokes, etc.
Ian
Copyright Deimos. All rights reserved
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France Forum » Living » Pets » FAQ - Answer from DEFRA: Is this a joke??
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