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27/04/2008, 17:54 Quillan Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 3,577 Re: Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis Perhaps I am being rather thick here but I don't understand what Norman is going on about. He must be under 65 else, as Ron said, he would have an E121 and would not be paying his 8%. He gets 100% cover for his treatment and blood test  because of his illness. All that seems to have happened is that he has not paid for the last test and therefore does not have any paperwork to enable him to claim any money back, normal proccedure by the way, and now they want their money he is having a whinge. If he had paid he would have got his form, sent it off to his local CPAM office and the money would be back in his bank account within 4 weeks max. So what is the problem, it's the French system and that's how it works. To be honest he should be grateful he only has to pay 8% to stay in the French health system when many of us who work for a living pay a far higher amount. To be honest (and I don't mean to be rude)  if Norman is comparing France to the UK and thinks the UK health system is better then I know what I would do if I were him, go back. Mind you our lab gives the results in 5 or 6 hours (blood test at 09:00, results can be collected at 14:00, every time without fail) , 100 times faster than anything I have personally experienced in the UK. http://www.chambresdhote.com    Report

27/04/2008, 18:12 Russethouse Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 9,508 Re: Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis  Q, I think you may find that Norman has been in France for many years and paid into the French system, what he is highlighting is a difference in mindset, and I suspect that is valid, as rightly or wrongly many Brits would be horrified to be presented with this situation. www.quimperclub.org 99    Report

27/04/2008, 18:34 sweet 17 Joined on 05/08/2006 charente maritime Posts 2,048 Re: Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis I lived in the UK for nigh on 40 years and I worked in the NHS for some 22 years.  But, I had lived in other parts of the world where you die if you can't pay. UK NHS is wonderful (not for some people who work within it, however) and you are just grateful that it is so.  However, if you choose to make your life elsewhere, why expect it to be the same as in the UK? You pays your money and you takes your choice.  Mind you, I am not sure how long the dear old NHS can keep going the way it has done.  When the day comes when we have to lay it to rest, I shall be the first to say RIP NHS.  You were wonderful whilst you lived!    Report

27/04/2008, 18:49 cassis Joined on 28/12/2007 Manhattan and Glasgow Posts 309 Re: Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis  Quillan wrote: Perhaps I am being rather thick here but I don't understand what Norman is going on about. If he had paid he would have got his form, sent it off to his local CPAM office and the money would be back in his bank account within 4 weeks max. So what is the problem, it's the French system and that's how it works. To be honest he should be grateful he only has to pay 8% to stay in the French health system when many of us who work for a living pay a far higher amount. Whatever the reason, you missed what Norman is going on about:   Norman wrote: I didn't choose this lab, the sample was sent by my Cancer specialist, and I have never had any direct contact with them so it is not as if I had contracted anything with them Froggy administrative c o c k-u p, nothing to do with Norman prima facie.  Or are people expected to pay for bills they don't know anything about?  If I'd received that letter I'd be pretty p i s s e d off by its snotty tone. Zoggy played guitar, jammin' good with Weird and Golly. Lyrics copyright Sausage Music 2008    Report

27/04/2008, 18:56 Sprogster Joined on 23/08/2004 Var & C.I. Posts 288 Re: Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis You don't delay something as serious as a biopsy or blood test for cancer, when the costs involved are minimal but a matter a few  days can make a critical difference, due to potential degradation of the sample and patient outcome. The danger in this type of situation is that the patient presumes everything is OK if they don't hear anything further, when in fact the test has not been processed and therefore the disease progresses beyond the curative stage, before they find out. Even in America, the land of private medicine, this sort of delay would be unlikely because the lab would be concerned about being sued for delaying diagnosis. If there is a lesson to be learned, it is wherever you are be it the UK or France you need to be pro-active in following up medical test results and don't assume no news is good news.    Report

27/04/2008, 19:42 NormanH Joined on 10/04/2008 Posts 179 Re: Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis  Russethouse wrote:  Q, I think you may find that Norman has been in France for many years and paid into the French system, what he is highlighting is a difference in mindset, and I suspect that is valid, as rightly or wrongly many Brits would be horrified to be presented with this situation. You have hit the nail on the head. My particular situation (compeletely misunderstood to a laughable degree by some unsympathetic posters such as Quillan) is that I have worked for so long in France that I have a French (not UK) pension which means that I will never have an E 121. (I would suggest that a few other people think about that because it will be the same for them later on ) My main point, which Russethouse has understood, is that our British instinct that if you have a major health problem you will be treated and for example a biopsy for a cancer would never be refused on financial grounds. This is NOT the case in France and you could find yourself refused treatment, if you can't pay , or if in my case there has been a glitch in the repayment mechanism in the past. So much for the so-called 'superior' health system in France..    Report

27/04/2008, 20:38 Dick Smith Joined on 23/08/2004 Surrey and Manche (Pays Mortainais) Posts 8,732 Re: Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis In fact, Norm, a lot of the Daily Wail diatribes against the 'free' treatment of nasty furriners comes about because of a mindset in the NHS that they will not turn a sick person away, and if told to do so, refuse. I forget the exact details, but there was such a  story a couple of weeks ago. Or, if anyone remembers, a poor woman who was sent back to Ghana, I believe, thus ending her treatment, which was then funded by public subscription from the UK - but sadly she died. A mindset which is one of the better things about the British as I see it, but no doubt others will disagree. Regards Dick Smith Nowhere is there warmth to be found Among those afraid of losing their ground    Report

27/04/2008, 20:50 Russethouse Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 9,508 Re: Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis  Remember that story, and I think I mentioned it here, but it seemed that she had some misdeed ( perhaps falsely claiming benefit ? ) that somehow made her less worthy ? It's to the credit of the community to which she belonged that they continued with their support IMHO www.quimperclub.org 99    Report

28/04/2008, 10:56 Quillan Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 3,577 Re: Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis Firstly I would like to say I am very sympathetic to Normans health problems and hope that he makes a speedy and complete recovery and enjoys life for many years to come illness free. If I gave the impression that I was unsympathetic then I apologize. Perhaps things differ from one region of France to another, we have seen this happen with other issues in the past. Where we live I expect to hand over money for any visit to my doctor and specialist. I also have to pay for any 'lab' work done and until last year when our local hospital updated their computer system (or perhaps something else, I don't know) for all xrays. Even when in hospital I had to pay for some services like lab work etc. I handed over my money (a little more than Norman, about 78 Euros comes to mind) and was then given the claim form. With the doctor he uses the Carte Vital, as does the specialist/consultant so I don't get any form to send off. This is the case for any of my health issues be they 100% covered or not. I get the impression, based on how it works in my neck of the woods, that Normans specialist or probably more to the point his secretary never sent the bill on to Norman enabling him to pay and then claim back and that may well be where the problem lays. When we first used the health system here it came as quite a shock to discover that we had to 'pay up front' in some cases and as we progressed through the system we never knew if we had to pay then claim back or not and to this day it's still a guess in some cases which is why we always take a cheques book with us. The only things we use at the moment that we don't have to pay up front for are primary hospital care, MRI scans, xrays and prescriptions. So yes people should be aware that they have to pay some charges but then you do get the money back and it may be a bit worrying for those on a low income. I think I would pay the bill (because it the quickest way of getting the new test results) and then go and have a word with the specialist and ask him to explain how this situation could have arisen in the first place. I still don't think its a good idea to compare the French and English system because they are different and the mentality behind the systems are also different. I get the impression that the French attitude is that normally if you don't put in you can't get anything out where as the UK system is come one come all and you will be treated FOC. Oh and yes I also remember the lady who was 'thrown out'. Originally it was reported with no reason given but after a couple of days it then transpired that she had been claiming a lot of money in benefits illegally and it was for that reason she was thrown out. http://www.chambresdhote.com    Report

28/04/2008, 12:54 NormanH Joined on 10/04/2008 Posts 179 Re: Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis In fact I now understand better. I went to the lab and paid the old bill today. The clinic that did the first biopsy last year never settled the bill with the Lab, which normally they should have done. So when the lab got another sample with my Sécu number it came up on their internal records as an unpaid bill. At the same time I had in fact paid the clinic last year, so I had no way of knowing that there was a problem. (I don't know yet if what I paid included the lab work, or it was just left out of the loop) the Lab did in fact do the most recent analysis which was paid directly by a different clinic in which my other Doctor works, and which is a bit more organised administratively, so they weren't as heartless as the letter sounded. They sent me the letter to get their money from the last time. Although I have been in France a long time my British instincts surfaced in the fact that this would never happen in the UK. With the NHS the medical care comes before money.    Report

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