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27/10/2007, 20:53 ams Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 398 Re: Health Care reforms! If you want to take a case against the French government, the EU will fully fund the  cost. May I suggest that you get in touch with Kathy Sinnott MEP. I talked to her a while back and she was prepared to back myself and my wife in a petition to the EU authorities. I have also been in touch with the legal representative for the EU in Paris who is also prepared to cover the full cost of a challence to the EU against France. I have not gone ahead with either avenues as I feel we may not be the most appropiate people to front such a challenge.   http://kathy.sinnott@europarl.europa.eu   telephone number 00353 21 488 8793   ams    Report

27/10/2007, 21:02 Deimos Joined on 15/11/2005 France Posts 2,731 Re: Health Care reforms!  Tony F Dordogne wrote: Sorry but I think that we're missing the point here about the French government.  The French government CAN ignore the 5 year rule ... I agree.  I was raising the "asset rich, income low" point as I think it is something that does not really exist and as such should not be used in any arguments about the changes (as it can be "shot down in flames" really easily - giving people to ignore other points raised in the same letter). I raised the issue about many people being better off, in part because when I last voted on the No. Petition thing I was disappointed to see how few signatories there were.  Given how widely the message has been spread and given that many have probably voted multiple times (though could never admit it as it would invalidate the entire petition) I think quite a few have decided not to object to something they perceive makes them better off.  I personally think that it might save this group a few €s in the short term but the longer term consequences are a lot worse and they have not thought it through.  cooperlola wrote: The cost of this for the 2 of us is about 4,400 euros... A completely separate debate but, two of you will statistically require twice the treatment and thus cost twice as much (and the Private Insurance companies will make twice the profit by denying to treat twice as many conditions. In fact there are massive inequalities and discriminatory practices/rules in the current system (where it comes to marries/co-habiting/single people).  Whilst I think they really should be sorted, now is probably not the time as at least they are not stopping ill people getting treated and not messing up peoples' residence options.  rothrugby wrote: We're neither asset rich nor cash rich , just a pair of ordinary people trying to get by! I suppose I'm thinking that there are quite a few "early retires" who sold-up expensive mortgage paid properties in the south east and now live of saving/interest tiding them over until their pensions arrive (and then boosting their pensions somewhat).  Not everybody but maybe quite a few.  rothrugby wrote: The quote you got seems very low compared to others we've seen- where did this come from? It was an internet site but cannot remember the full company (as I did not progress things).  They would only quote for people taking out cover within one month so I lied about when I would need cover so their quote was useless to me.  rothrugby wrote: Furthermore, we've seen small print that excludes payment for conditions that an insurer deemed were present although not diagnosed at the time the policy was taken out- hence excluded. We've also seen exclusions for illnesses if they require more than one treatment  i.e follow up cancer treatment as this will then be defined as chronic- another exclusion. I have heard that US Insurance companies are refusing to pay out on conditions/illness that has a genetic link.  They are saying (on occasions) that whilst the illness was pre-existing (i.e. genetic predisposition) and was just un-diagnosed - and thus not covered.  Most I looked at seem to only cover conditions where you get ill, get treated (in the relatively short term) and get better.  Anything else (even the really expensive ones) exclude pretty well everything else.  I think this is one area where the (maybe) selfish people thinking they are "better-off" will subsequently find themselves "worse off" when they try to claim for a serious condition.  Tony F Dordogne wrote: Sorry but I think that we're missing the point here about the French government.  The French government CAN ignore the 5 year rule ... And I agree - having taken the thread on a bit of a tangent.  However, where people have energy to pursue lines they consider much be productive I say "go for it".  Maybe the EU law route would be slow but maybe the questions raised by some of the organisations people have contacted will all contribute to the pressure on the French authorities. Ian Copyright Deimos. All rights reserved    Report

27/10/2007, 21:06 ams Joined on 07/08/2007 Posts 398 Re: Health Care reforms! You are very fortunate. My GP has no machine either, however we do take the time to complete the form (brown form), usually about 32 seconds and drop it into the CPAM letter box, and hey presto the 70% refund posps into our bank account 3 or 4 days later. Mind you I have not taken full cogniscance of the cost of the envelope, usually 1c.   I am in excellent health. However i do reuire medication every month which costs €57. other medication for the 2 of us comes to about €160 per annum.  Then we have the other costs such as the accident with burning stuff in the garden, the medication would have cost in excess of €600. Then one must add into the mix, the cost of out patient services for my wife as she has just reached 50 years.Mind you also in excellent Health. then the visits to the GP to get the prescription renewed. Oh I forgot, the eyecheck up for the two of us and the dental check up. I am sure i have forgotten many many other costs, but the above represent the bulk of what it costs us. By the way we pay our GP €22 per visit, i guess your yearly visit must be due soon.   ams    Report

27/10/2007, 21:26 Deimos Joined on 15/11/2005 France Posts 2,731 Re: Health Care reforms!  ams wrote: By the way we pay our GP €22 per visit, i guess your yearly visit must be due soon. Early Jan.  I'm trying to work out how to renew my sailing license (not possible until after 31/Dec), get the paperwork and visit the doctor for the medical all before 5/Jan (when my cover expires).  And if I work it out I will be taking the trouble to claim this year.  Its a daft medical.  Last years was just a chat and he tried to persuade me to have an operation !!  Basically, walk into his office (mostly) unaided and you get the certificate. Ian Copyright Deimos. All rights reserved    Report

27/10/2007, 21:56 Maricopa Joined on 01/10/2007 Minervois, Hérault Posts 782 Re: Health Care reforms! There are a wide variety of people who now choose to live in France, and hopefully I can use myself as an example.  Deimos wrote: However a couple will probably have a higher income so 8% represents a higher amount as well. We only have a small military pension to live on  When we looked at moving to France, taking all the taxes into account, this worked out as about the minimum a couple could live on without worrying about how the next bill was going to be paid.  Obviously, as a couple, we get @double the allowance before 8%, but we would still have to have contributed.  Deimos wrote: Actually this "asset rich, income poor" category does not really exist.  If you have assets they generally generate income (unless you are a bit daft when it comes to financial matters)..........   Even a simplistic  sell-up for £300 000 and move to your holiday home in France gives you an income of €27000 per year in a regular bank deposit. They are in existence.  If we are unique, in having the above income and owning outright our house and car, I would be most surprised.  I personally think I am lucky to be debt free at 43 (and own my own home).  However, unless I rent out a room in my small house, my assets are not actually going to make me any money, which I really don't want to do. Post edited Maricopa Never assume anything, it only makes an assofuandme    Report

27/10/2007, 23:03 Deimos Joined on 15/11/2005 France Posts 2,731 Re: Health Care reforms!  Maricopa wrote: The only bit of sense you talked in your post. And I was trying to be so nice and not be nasty to anybody as well.  Maybe I should just pick every bit of your response and miss the point and pull it to bits (which would be very very easy as you have totally missed what I said by entirely focusing on your own situation). When you talk about generalisations you have to make generalisations !!!  You really missed the point entirely - selfish attitude.  Anyway, I cannot be bothered to point out where you are wrong (and you are).  and then to turn round and say my generalisation is too simplistic - my god. Ian (who is pretty ***-off with such an attitude and is questioning why bother to help - after all I'll be financially better off under the new scheme; and no, I have not given away my income either). Copyright Deimos. All rights reserved    Report

27/10/2007, 23:20 Russethouse Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 11,683 Re: Health Care reforms! The trouble is that unless you are prepared to disclose personal details (ie real figures) and situations, which would possibly be unwise, it leaves other posters to assume an awful lot - assuming is always dangerous and pretty much leads to the sort of conflict you two have created.  Maricopa, I doubt if there are too many people as young as you in your position and I suspect Ians case isn't typical either - cases are individual so perhaps its better to keep to the principal and exchangeing information rather than making it too personal ? www.quimperclub.org 99    Report

27/10/2007, 23:20 Maricopa Joined on 01/10/2007 Minervois, Hérault Posts 782 Re: Health Care reforms! I was hopefully trying to point out, by using myself as an example, that I think there are probably many people in my situation.  It was not a personal attack on yourself, or anyone else who has made similar posts.  We do all need to pull together in this, and to everyone who is doing their bit, including yourself, well done and keep it up.  And I sincerely apologise for the last bit, very unneccessary, which I have now edited, as I have the rest of my post to tone it down. Maricopa Never assume anything, it only makes an assofuandme    Report

27/10/2007, 23:45 Deimos Joined on 15/11/2005 France Posts 2,731 Re: Health Care reforms! For example, when people talk about the "asset rich, cash poor" in the context of tax and health system they refer to those whose lifestyle way exceeds their declared income.  When they do leave their swimming pools they tend to be driving their Range rovers, etc., etc.  The reason they are described as such is that they are supposedly living off savings.  i.e. the money they spend in Super U is not generated from income/interest but rather is being taken from a massive heap of savings.  Owning you house does not allow you to do this. Thus my point holds and it is not wise to raise this group as they do not exist.  The closest they can come to existing is by hiding their savings behind a life assurance scheme.  However, this if completely legal and allowed (by both French and UK and most other EU countries).  The income is still taxed but not as badly - and its the income (the cash this group supposedly don't have) that is not taxed as much not the capital. (I was using real figures, just not necessarily mine).  Look at the supposed numbers of people who are selling-up in the UK and downsizing to France.  Large place in Surrey to smaller place in France leaves capital. Ian Copyright Deimos. All rights reserved    Report

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