Search Sort Posts:  Oldest to newest Newest to oldest

02/07/2009, 7:33 Quillan Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 6,259 Re: Air conditioners And good morning to you too. Firstly the inverter thing. Inverter means they have variable speed units where as the non inverter are either on or off. Like most electrical things it costs more when you switch things on than it does to run them. Once the room is at temperature the inverter unit changes speed to keep the room at said temp where as the other will switch on and off as the temp changes. This is why the inverter system is more economic. You could try searching on Inverter Air Conditioning and there are some papers that explain it better than I and help you work out what power rating you need. The variance in min temp is because of a combination of compressor and gassing of the liquid. Because the inverter type changes speed as apposed to being either on or off it can work down to lower air temps. When the outside air temp gets very low they become less efficient. I am no expert on this so talk to a professional, all the above is what I discovered searching out info on the subject. Our local guy charged 80 Euros to 'Gas up'. I used the 'prefilled' hoses but you will still get a little air in the pipes so basically he sucked everything out, including the refrigerant then refilled with my refrigerant and topped it up with about a litre of his. Your guy may be charging for all the refrigerant or he might be taking the pea because you are not buying from him. We had a meter reading a few weeks back and early indications show I have reduced my electricity bill for the same period by about 35%. The negative side is that with the hot weather there is a temptation to use them as chillers which would offset the savings made in the winter. My finger keeps caressing the remote but so far I have managed to keep it under control and not press the on button. http://www.chambresdhote.com    Report

02/07/2009, 8:57 krusty Joined on 13/08/2006 haute vienne (87) Posts 4,641 Re: Air conditioners Morning UR as I was sprawled out last night chilling , I was wondering how you went on. As I said I only intended fitting an a/c for heating in winter but the temptation has been too great this week ,so unlike Q the button has been pressed . I bought a brand called ARIA ,and have only fitted one so far . I bought them on ebay from a dealer , paid about 500 each for a model 9 and a model 12. They come with nylon hoses that are charged with nitrogen and the mounting bracket for the outside unit. I let the hoses vent , then allowed the gas through .The one I have done seems to work ok so far , whether not being vaced down will cause any problems in the future , time will tell. This is some info on Aria . I have just had this months Castorama leaflet and they have a new one on sale Zenith 3590w 399euros , but I do not think it is inverter. The futures so bright, I've got to wear shades.    Report

03/07/2009, 5:59 UlsterRugby1999 Joined on 27/04/2006 Posts 423 Re: Air conditioners Morning folks and many thanks for the responses. Krusty - thanks for the link. I need 2 BiSplit units and a large MonoSplit unit so sadly your link doesnt get me what I want. Thanks anyway. Quillan - good response, as always. I kind of understand the inverter concept but wondered with such a close set of CoP figures (and EER stats too) would the saving in buying the cheaper models be agin me or for me. For the three models I need the difference in cost is either 4k€ or 2.2k€ which is quite a significant saving, but would the running costs soon burn up that saving. Then the temperature aspect of it makes me wonder how often we get to below -7C let alone -15C here in the south east Vienne area. If it was a case, for example, that the CoP delivery dropped 0.1 or 0.2 for every degree below the -7C then I could live with that for the short periods we would have those temperatures. If, however, they just shut down then there is no competition. In that case everything this last winter would have shut down. Does this make any sense or am I barking up the wrong tree again    Report

03/07/2009, 6:36 Quillan Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 6,259 Re: Air conditioners To be honest I understand what you are after (to be told which one is best) but its difficult because every house and every location is different. My installation is as follows, two monosplit for the lounge and one monosplit in each bedroom and a storage heater in the long hall. The two monosplits are on a south facing wall but under the roof which extends 2.5M out over the terrace. Because the sun is lower in the winter it shines on the units but in the summer it is higher and does not (pretty cool positioning my me I thought, best of both worlds). The temperature round here can regularly get to -15 and in the worse case (OK only twice in 8 years) gets to -18 yet I still saved about 35% and I have inverter units. I can't answer for the cheaper units as I have no experience with them. You could go for the cheap ones in bedrooms and inverters in living areas, just as a suggestion. You don't have heating on so much in bedroom and not for so long either. Oh and don't forget noise, inverters are less noisy when the room is at temp. Mr Bricolarge has units in their sale 50% off, thats in Limoux and I don't know what type they are. I assume its the same in other branches although knowing France probably not but worth a look. http://www.chambresdhote.com    Report

03/07/2009, 7:21 powerdesal Joined on 07/01/2006 Abu Dhabi, UAE (from Sept 2010) Posts 3,221 Re: Air conditioners Good Morning All, A very interesting thread. I am presently planning the heating installation for next winter and Quillans experience and comments are extremely valuable and relevant. I am tempted to 'suck it and see' with just one unit this time for the lounge, my calcs indicate a heating requirement of 2952 w for the 28m sqr area and I am tempted towards an 'Airton' unit from Bricodepot at E520 + E89 + E23 = E 632. I have tried to find info on 'Airton' as a manufacturer but no joy. Q, is this the brand that you fitted? Its a warranted , inverter unit at class A with pre-charge pipes, so maybe worth it. My fitting position is also on a south facing wall so should benefit from any winter sun. I don't think the aircon facility is relevant to me so I'm not worried about summer temps on the unit. My thoughts are to fit the interior fan/coil unit at low level ( ie under a window, similar to radiator positioning) with the warm air outlet about (say) 20 - 30 cms above the floor so that the air flow is at low level and is analagous to blown air skirting heaters, can anyone see a problem there? Cold feet are SWMBO's problem in winter, with a tiled floor. We definitely get below -7 on a regular winter basis so -15 is really a must I believe. regards The Bricodepot price is quite attractive when compared to the Carrier units from Castorama at virtually double the price, I am familiar with Carrier and believe they are a top manufacturer, but is the price really just for the name? If not, longevity could be an issue I suppose. The Aria unit mentioned by Krusty? is cat C for heating which concerns me in terms of running costs. Retirement lasted a whole 7 days !    Report

03/07/2009, 16:52 Chancer Joined on 16/07/2006 Picardie, Sussex Posts 4,879 Re: Air conditioners To answer a few of your questions I have an Airton split unit that I bought as an end of line from Brico-Depot 2 or maybe 3 years ago, it is the old type (r407?) ungreen gas and is not an invertor type. I use it for cooling in the summer and as top up heating (I have storage heaters) when it is very cold or I have been caught out by a sudden cold snap after reducing the charge on the other heaters. It is only supposed to work down to minus 5 or thereabouts but thankfully it is unaware of this restriction, we hit minus 18 last winter and it was still giving out significant heat, what percentage I cannot say as it is used to top up but the dwell periods while the evaporator defrosts were noticeably more frequent. The temperature control is pretty appalling, I think that this is because the thermostat is mounted in the unit high up on the wall at the hottest par of the room, it definitely has better temperature control of heating than cooling. I would recommend that you avoid the units with dry break couplings at all cost as the seals do not (unless they were to use prohibitively expensive O rings), it has already been discussed on this forum that it not a question of if you will need recharging but when. My unit had a purge and bleed sequence to follow and I am sure that it would benefit from a proper vacuum down and recharge but around here the guys charge a minimum of €250 to recharge a fridge which is twic what I paid for my system. Overall I am very pleased but I dont know if I would consider one for the only source of heating for two reasons (make that 3, no 4!) I dont honestly know if the performance would be adequate when you need the heating most at sub zero temperatures, and I doubt that it ould be any more economical than other electrical heating in these circumstances. The middle of winter is not the time to be negotiating with or held to ransom by the recharge man. I think that one unit for a room as large as 30m2 would not give an even heat compared to several smaller heaters. Having cooling breezing down (balayage) from on high is quite comforting but heating not so.    Report

03/07/2009, 17:46 powerdesal Joined on 07/01/2006 Abu Dhabi, UAE (from Sept 2010) Posts 3,221 Re: Air conditioners Thanks for the comments JR. It would not in fact be the only source of heating, it would be supplementary to the wood burner seen below:- The objective being to get a warm airflow at ground level sweeping (hopefully) across the floor to keep the feet of Madam from going blue with cold. The present floor is tiled and is quite cold, even with the air temp in the upper part being reasonable. Floor insulation is planned in the future. SWMBO claims we dont need to do this but I disagree (I want my own way !!!!) having been on the receiving end of complaints throughout last winter. Multiple smaller heaters are not an option due to the configuration of the room. Retirement lasted a whole 7 days !    Report

04/07/2009, 6:45 UlsterRugby1999 Joined on 27/04/2006 Posts 423 Re: Air conditioners powerdesal - wwww.airton.fr - what does SWMBO stand for. Quillan - <img src="/cs/images/emotions/wink.gif" alt="Wink [;-)]" /> not looking for which one is best but rather what happens when the temp gets below -7C or -15C. Do they simply switch off or reduce efficiency. Like you, we get temps here that come in at -15C or so. This winter the nearest recording Mairie recorded an all time low of -21C (so we are told). So if the units switch off, then the inverters would have done so too but would have kept going that much longer. If its an efficiency thing then I'd suck it and see (as powerdesal says <img src="/cs/images/emotions/wink.gif" alt="Wink [;-)]" /> ) and take the hit for the few days that it gets so cold. As you say Quillan the cheaper units in the bedrooms would be okay, if, they dont switch themselves off below their stated temperature level. As JR's gone native tells us, his older unit, rated to -5C doesnt switch of even when it gets down to -18C so maybe the bedrooms could work fine with the cheaper units. One more question for you clever troops - how can a unit which produces 3.5 CoP be energy rated at C when another unit which produces 3.42 CoP be rated at B???? I wont be here for a while as I'm off right now, with my son, to the French Open in Paris - aye - its tough at the top.............<img src="/cs/images/emotions/tongue.gif" alt="Stick out tongue [:P]" />    Report

04/07/2009, 10:13 powerdesal Joined on 07/01/2006 Abu Dhabi, UAE (from Sept 2010) Posts 3,221 Re: Air conditioners SWMBO = She who must be obeyed,......referred to by some as...."her indoors". ! Retirement lasted a whole 7 days !    Report

Page 2 of 3 (23 items) < 1 2 3 >

France ForumGeneral Discuss...The Complete Fr...Air conditioners

(please select) Forums Home |- Search Forums |- Active Topics |- Unanswered Posts User Options |- Sign In |- Join this community |- Forgot Password About This Forum (READ ONLY) |- About This Forum Moving |- Finding/Owning French Property |- Making the Move From Outside the EU |- Long-Term Letting |- Employment Vacancies in France Legal and Finance |- French Legal Issues |- French Finance Building and Renovation |- House Renovations |-- Working with Wood Living |- Earning a Living |- NEW - Money Saving Expat |- Driving in France |- French Education |- People with Disabilities in France |- Pets |- Animal Welfare, Rescue & Protection |- French Satellite TV, French Internet and Telephone |- Health |-- Changes to Healthcare Entitlement, CPAM, CMU and Cartes Vitales |- Swimming Pools in France Owning/Running a Business |- French Artisans |- Gite Owners Forum |- Hotel and Restaurant Owners |- B&B/Chambres d'Hôtes Owners Leisure and Pastimes |- Gardening |- Sport, Leisure and Pastimes |- Shopping |- French Antiques, Arts & Crafts |- Photography in France |- Motorcycling in France |- Books and Literature |- Getting Married in France |- Pregnancy and Birth French Culture |- French Food and Wine |- French Culture |- French Language |-- French Language FAQs and Useful Links |- Wildlife/Nature/Environment |- French History Travelling to/from France |- Travelling to/from France |- Latest Good Value Deals to/from France Holidays |- Holidays General Discussion |- The Complete France Post Bag |- The Lighter Side |- Other Topics |- Forum Technical Support |- Useful Links About France/French Living Regions |- Central (Centre, Limousin, Auvergne) |- North East (Champagne-Ardennes, Lorraine, Alsace) |- North West (Basse-Normandie, Haute-Normandie, Picardie, Nord Pas-de-Calais) |- Paris Ile de France |- South East (Languedoc-Roussillon, Provence Alpes Côte d'Azur) |- South West (Aquitaine, Midi-Pyrénées) |- East (Rhône-Alpes, Bourgogne, Franche-Comté) |- West (Bretagne, Pays de la Loire, Poitou-Charente) |- Corsica and DOM-TOMs