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Animal Welfare, Rescue & Protection
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 14/05/2008, 8:53
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Catalpa
Joined on 23/08/2004
Southern Manche - 50
Posts 1,504
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Re: badger baiting in France
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 Jonzjob wrote: | | ... what damage do badgers doo? |
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We lived in a heavily populated (by badgers) area of Wiltshire. There was a nearby wood that had plenty of large setts. When the population grows, badgers like to build themselves satellite sets which may be connected to or are nearby main setts. A farmer local to us used to lose chunks of field to the badgers - he'd be ploughing / spraying / planting - whatever - and the tractor would suddenly sink into a sett. Uusually he'd have to get another tractor to pull the first tractor out and on one occasion he got two tractors stuck in the same sett when a second section collapsed. This made areas of the field close to unusable. There are laws about working close to badger setts (even inadvertently demolished badger setts) and he had to get permission to get earth-moving vehicles in to level the surface out again. The permissions from (I think it was licence from MAFF, pre-DEFRA) took about a year to come through.
There are also potential problems for livestock because heavier animals can break legs when subsiding into a sett and of course there can be problems with undermining tracks and even buildings.
I'm not going into the badgers and TB debate because I'm sure there's a problem but I'm really not sure there's a definite link.
And it should go without saying that I find digging out and baiting abhorrent.
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14/05/2008, 9:01
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Catalpa
Joined on 23/08/2004
Southern Manche - 50
Posts 1,504
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Re: badger baiting in France
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| Dick Smith wrote: | |
I'm sure it does happen but I suspect rarely. The amount of badgers killed on the roads is probably in direct relation to what the local badger population is and how busy the road is at dawn and dusk. The wood I referred to in the previous post was very heavily populated by badgers. If I had an early morning start in spring / early summer, it was not unusual for me to see between 8 - 10 badgers foraging along the verges in a 1.5 mile stretch of fortunately quiet lane. Even so, I often used to see dead badgers on that stretch, on one sad occasion, 3 of them. I don't believe a farmer had killed them and dumped them. The badgers were just caught out by cars. They used to seem particularly oblivious to diesel cars.
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14/05/2008, 9:40
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Iceni
 
Joined on 23/08/2004
Lot 46
Posts 2,960
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Re: badger baiting in France
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14/05/2008, 10:15
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Jacqui Too
Joined on 23/08/2004
Shropshire / Dordogne 24
Posts 669
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Re: badger baiting in France
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| Iceni wrote: |
| Catalpa wrote: | |
And it should go without saying that I find digging out and baiting abhorrent.
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But is it legal ?
John
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I think we all agree that cruelty is totally unacceptable, and we have to distinguish the difference between, digging out and humanely dispatching the animal whether it is badgers, foxes or rabbits, all of which I am quite sure is legal in France. But what is not acceptable is the baiting, 'baiting' to most people means provoking the animal into fighting and defending itself from dogs etc. for the entertainment of others. And I think the the tittle of the OP is misleading in that it implies that the 'event' will involve baiting as we know it, which may not be the case.
Jackie
At least with a spell-checker I can appear somewhat educated!
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14/05/2008, 21:37
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odile
Joined on 09/05/2008
Posts 271
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Re: badger baiting in France
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Sorry for the confusion. The competition will be for badger digging- and not 'baiting' - The Departement d'agriculture et forets/Macon has given permission for the event to take place near Cluny. The diggers claim that the badgers will be released, and not killed- so no cruelty is involved! However there are many flawa to that argument:
the badgers will fight to the death rather than be caught, especially as cubs are still unweaned and live mostly underground at this time of year. Diggers use tools like long tongues, pick axes and spades to take hold of the badger- and badgers get badly injured in the process. the dogs also bite and tear them and cause horrendous injuries. Dogs also get very badly torn/bitten- they are very highly prized animals and lots of pride is taken in winning, and they fetch huge amounts of money. the badger jaw is designed to lock- so it is impossible to prize it open (most mamals can have their jaw forcefully open, like dogs for instance) so the only way to release a dog is to smash the jaw open with a spade or axe. So releasing the animals is almost more cruel than shooting them, as they slowly die of infection or starve as they can't feed. As cubs are still almost totally dependent on the mother for milk and feeding (they are born around february) - if the mother is taken and released, she won;t come back to the sett for days- thus cubs will die of starvation. Once the dogs are underground, there is no controlling them- so they will attack the cubs, tear them open or break their necks- and as the setts are dug into and the earth piled up in the tunnel, the cubs are also likely to suffocate. No cruelty indeed... they say it's just to keep tradition alive and to watch the dogs work'. At the very least, if they are going to do this 'sport' it should be done outside the gestation/lactation period, eg. between July and November. Hope this helps explain- will be glad to answer any questions- I have been working with badgers for more than 30 years. I am amazed anybody could think that I am an 'infiltrator' advertising the event... meilleures salutations a tous, Odile
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14/05/2008, 21:46
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odile
Joined on 09/05/2008
Posts 271
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Re: badger baiting in France
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Hoddy - were you ever a member of the Leicestershire Badger Group? Odile/Scraptoft
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14/05/2008, 23:56
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Jacqui Too
Joined on 23/08/2004
Shropshire / Dordogne 24
Posts 669
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Re: badger baiting in France
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| odile wrote: | | Sorry for the confusion. The competition will be for badger digging- and not 'baiting' - |
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Ah So they say they are not baiting!
| odile wrote: | |
badgers get badly injured in the process. the dogs also bite and tear them and cause horrendous injuries. Dogs also get very badly torn/bitten- they are very highly prized animals and lots of pride is taken in winning, and they fetch huge amounts of money. |
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If this is what is going on then this is badger baiting!
| odile wrote: | |
I am amazed anybody could think that I am an 'infiltrator' advertising the event... meilleures salutations a tous, Odile |
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I'm sorry if I doubted your motive for posting, but you are a new poster here and you did not introduce yourself as someone who was genuinely interested in animal welfare, we have had a lot of trolls here lately.
If you are genuinely active in trying to stop this sort of thing happening then I wish you well in helping these poor animals.
Jackie
At least with a spell-checker I can appear somewhat educated!
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15/05/2008, 9:21
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Hoddy
Joined on 23/08/2004
.....Forum Moderator..... NW Leics/SE Dordogne
Posts 2,101
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Re: badger baiting in France
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Odile, I've not been a member of the group you mention. In fact since the outrageous behaviour of the animal rights terrorists at the guineau pig farm which affected my family and the way I was threatened by some of them in Oxford Street, I won't support or join any animal organisation. It's so hard to be sure what you are supporting.
Hoddy
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France Forum » Living » Animal Welfare,... » Re: badger baiting in France
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