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13/03/2008, 13:37 Joanna Joined on 01/02/2008 Posts 25 Re: Do your kids enjoy school?  Jura wrote: . It does not cost these miserable bakers, tabac owners, supermarche/hypermarche, hairdressers,etc a darn centime to give these kids a few hours a week to just sit and watch them at work. . Actually Jura it does.  To start with the enterises offering the stages are supposed to feed their stagieres, maybe it doesn't amount to much but it still costs.  More importantly the stagieres have to be supervised by one of the other employees, they have to be given work which doesn't put them at any risk, I suspect stagieres wouldn't be allowed in tabacs anyway, the people who are running small business have to cope with someone who knows nothing getting in their way and impeding them getting on with the job etc etc etc.  Sounds miserable?  Maybe.  But if you're a baker (not an easy job at the best of times) the last thing you need on your plate is another hassle in your already hard working life. In addition there is absolutely no point in doing a stage where the stagiere doesn't do anything but sit and watch - that's just demoralising and boring.  They have to be given work to do and it can take quite a lot of time sorting out suitable tasks for a stagiere, I know since I've done it.    Report

13/03/2008, 20:58 Rose Joined on 06/02/2007 Dordogne (24) Posts 853 Re: Do your kids enjoy school?  Joanna wrote:  Jura wrote: . It does not cost these miserable bakers, tabac owners, supermarche/hypermarche, hairdressers,etc a darn centime to give these kids a few hours a week to just sit and watch them at work. . Actually Jura it does.  To start with the enterises offering the stages are supposed to feed their stagieres, maybe it doesn't amount to much but it still costs.  More importantly the stagieres have to be supervised by one of the other employees, they have to be given work which doesn't put them at any risk, I suspect stagieres wouldn't be allowed in tabacs anyway, the people who are running small business have to cope with someone who knows nothing getting in their way and impeding them getting on with the job etc etc etc.  Sounds miserable?  Maybe.  But if you're a baker (not an easy job at the best of times) the last thing you need on your plate is another hassle in your already hard working life. In addition there is absolutely no point in doing a stage where the stagiere doesn't do anything but sit and watch - that's just demoralising and boring.  They have to be given work to do and it can take quite a lot of time sorting out suitable tasks for a stagiere, I know since I've done it. I hate these threads as they tend to bring out extremes which is always so worrying for parents.  Life isn't perfect anywhere and you'll find good and bad in every country.  I lived in rural devon and our village school was meant to be fantastic... people moved to the area to go there (I'm sure you know the scenario) and it was always always always over subscribed.  I guess many parents loved the push for IT and technology... every child had a computer... lots of supposed indiviudal learning and supposed creative thinking... end result... children were not being taught reading or writing or maths... in our one class during the term we left, five parents took their children out... we all lived in the village but found schools outside the catchment... we ended up paying almost a second mortgatge in private school fees... the UK is not the eutopia some of you make it out to be... It's a great country but far from perfect... thats my view as a parent... My work brings me in to contact with a great many teachers and educators and there is a general view between them that our system has major flaws too....  I tend to agree... And, finally, as an employer that used to take work experience students... I've stopped... too much red tape and far too much hassle... we now have a blanket 'no' to all comers... it's not France Jura... it's life sadly OK... minor rant over    Report

13/03/2008, 21:08 Rose Joined on 06/02/2007 Dordogne (24) Posts 853 Re: Do your kids enjoy school? Ooops.. forgot to add that I have a 9 year old in school in rural France... the only English child and the first too... the school has been really helpful, he has been given 2 french tutors one in school and one comes to our home (about 4 hours a week in total) and a great deal of his work was customised to suit his needs.  He started in September when he was 8.  It was hard at first but he is finding his feet and he is happy.  He's inviting friends home for tea and joining in much more in class... he's far from fluent but starting to understand and have the confidence to say a little. There was a boy who teased him in class... he was getting a bit upset so we mentioned it to the teacher... she was already aware... once we left she gave the child a right talking too in front of the class... the teasing stopped.  I would also add that his french friends were very supportive too... I think maybe we were lucky with our school but I think the same can go for the UK too...      Report

27/03/2008, 6:21 Emma Joined on 20/03/2008 Posts 2 Re: Do your kids enjoy school? Hi Catherine Having read the replies you've had so far, you're probably not feeling too positive about moving now!  However, our story is that we moved our 4 and 6 year old girls here a year ago, and they started school a week after our arrival.  They were hugely welcomed by the entire school, and although the first few weeks were a bit strange for them, they never got upset about going or the fact that they had no idea what anyone was saying to them.  After the eight week summer holiday, they fitted back in straight away, and have gradually improved with their French since then.  We're not the best example of speaking French at home with them, but even so, they certainly have enough language skills to manage their days. No special allowances have been made for them, in terms of language, as the teachers don't speak any/much English.  My six year old benefited from being able to read and write already, (they don't learn these skills until they are six here), and so could concentrate on learning vocab instead. She occasionally has been given extra work, more to keep her occupied whilst the others catch up.  She has also been placed in the year above for Maths, to make sure she doesn't get bored repeating work she's already done in the UK. Your four year old will be in a mainly play environment with simple sticking and pasting exercises, and work on the alphabet and numbers, so it's a comfortable place to be while learning another language. Their school is rural - 100 pupils spread over four classes, with two school years in each class. Before we arrived, I was concerned this might be a bit odd, but in fact, seems to work really well, especially for encouraging the children to be able to work alone, while the teacher splits his time between the two years.  The children all play across the year groups at playtime (three per day), and the school has a far warmer family feel to their old school in England (which was still a great school). The teaching does seem more traditional, with having to learn poetry by heart, and getting the handwriting absolutely perfect, and there does seem to be a 'correct' way of doing things, rather than letting children arrive at an answer using their own methods, but with children this age, I don't think they will realise that it's too much different from what they're used to in England! They don't have access to sailing etc, here, but still do great school trips and have shows etc at the end of term.  My six year old has just come back from a three night classe de mer, where she had a packed programme and a great time. (Even though it was her first time away from us, and she had solid French for four days!) I've heard of lots of children not settling and being moved to another school etc (which probably doesn't help that unsettled feeling), but I hope you have luck as we did in finding the right school first time.  If possible, be really sure of the local area you want to move to, so even if you are renting/buying or moving, you can do so without them having to change school again.    Report

06/04/2008, 22:53 Montcigoux Joined on 23/08/2004 Posts 40 Re: Do your kids enjoy school? If you haven't already read this then in addition to all the great practical books there are out there then do read "Sixty Million Frenchmen Can't Be Wrong" as it gives a very good insight into the french educational approach, french school teachers and also how french parents judge educational and career success. French schools are very different to english schools and french parents value entirely different things in a school to how we english parents would judge a school.    Report

16/04/2008, 13:48 Rumpole Joined on 23/08/2004 Brittany, France Posts 7 Re: Do your kids enjoy school? I am sorry that so many of the parents who have written are disappointed with French schools. Having been to English school in the fifties and early sixties I find that French schools are very similar. My daughter who went to school in California had a very different experience not a positive one. Our Grandson went to school in California before he came here 18 months ago. His experience there was less than positive too. They are expected to write their names before they enter Kindergarten, which is not a compulsory year, but most children go to school then. He was also expected to have other skills that are taught in a Pre-school which is free for the poor children, but he fell through the cracks his mother earned too much for him to go and not enough to pay for private Pre-school so he went to school at a distinct disadvantage to the other children in his low-income area school.Since coming here at 7 years old he has blossomed. He was disruptive and failing to learn anything. Their answer was to suspend him from school for every infraction. It doesn't take long for a child who is struggling in school to realise that he can go home if he misbehaves. Here his teacher yelled at him. It only took a few times before he stopped misbehaving. He is dyslexic and disgraphic which we had long suspected and his teachers in America weren't particularly interested in that at least not enough to have him tested. Not here we spoke with his teacher and he was tested and now is doing well the school gives him extra reading lessons and he goes to the Orthophonist twice a week. Learning cursive writing first has been a big help to him he still struggles with capital letters, but can write an understandable hand now. Sending him to a high discipline school was the best thing that happened to him. It seems to me that many pupils in English and American schools would benefit from more discipline and less creativity. Your children at 4 and 6 will do fine they will soon pick up the language although a bit of basic French before they come would be a help.    Report

18/04/2008, 14:58 petra Joined on 18/04/2008 Posts 19 Re: Do your kids enjoy school? Hello everyone, I moved here (in the Jura too) on Christmas day. We used to live in Pembrokeshire, on a farm too. I loved it. My husband's half French and was brought up here till he was 14, then went to Kenya. So, he loves to up sticks and move...a lot! My 3 children (7, 8, and 10) go to the village school and are bullied every day! This broke my heart as my French is sadly still awful, so I couldn't sort it out. (I dislike relying on my husband all the time, it's simply not my style! My son is small for his age and that doesn't help. I'm afraid they aren't learning a thing. Their behaviour has turned a bit violent too. We've had a word with the teacher and things have calmed down a little...but still! Now we are moving again because I was cracking up; don't get me wrong I love the Jura, but not to live. We're going to give Corsica a bash! I love the locals here too, everyone has been very helpful. But after 2 non-summers in Wales, I am looking forward to a warmer one this year. And I hope the children's new school will be less traumatic. Petra    Report

04/05/2008, 21:54 Ginger Joined on 04/05/2008 Posts 13 Re: Do your kids enjoy school?  Rumpole wrote: I am sorry that so many of the parents who have written are disappointed with French schools. Having been to English school in the fifties and early sixties I find that French schools are very similar. With all due respect Rumpole, education has moved on considerably since the 50s and 60s so to say that French schooling is stuck about 40 years ago isn't much of a recommendation. I don't think the 50s and 60s were particularly the glory years in British education being as it was narrow and aimed only at the more academic.  Personally I don't see any similarities myself. French schooling is rigid, prescriptive and bears little relevance to the global marketplace we live in today. Standards in French schools are considerably below many other EU countries, including some of the Eastern European ones. In my experience discipline is worse here than the UK except in the worst inner city schools - and yes we live in the country not the town.  Have a look at the league tables for violence in French schools. It will make your hair stand on end!    Report

05/05/2008, 13:19 Russethouse Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 10,318 Re: Do your kids enjoy school? I don't think the 50s and 60s were particularly the glory years in British education being as it was narrow and aimed only at the more academic.  I think that is a huge generalization and as someone who attended school during those years I am wondering what you are basing your information on ? We had the opportunity to do rural studies, art, music, domestic science, needlework, woodwork etc as well as the usual academic subjects and that was in common with other schools - Secondary Modern, Comprehensive and Grammar. In addition those who wanted to, could leave school at age fifteen and take up an apprenticeship. www.quimperclub.org 99    Report

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