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Swimming Pools in France
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 30/05/2008, 16:49
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Poolguy
 
Joined on 25/12/2004
Charante Maritime
Posts 767
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Re: JUST CHLOR Chlorinators How long should they last?
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You all know my thoughts on Salt Chlorinators so I will not repeat that here to cloud the discussion.
I wanted to add another issue to the list which the P's wrote ( the majority of which I agree with) is that if you purchase any product over the net from another county then you will also have bought:
- absolutely no consumer protection (you do not know what you are buying)
- no warrantee ( despite what the brochure claims)
- no backup service,
and you are likely to end up spending more money than you saved if you need the unit fixed in France ( should there be a fault)
Not to mention that if you do not support local companies then you will not have any local companies to help when you need it.
If you think that the price for pool products is high in France then take up the issue with Messers Sarkozy et al as it is they that have caused it.
Our margins are modest and we work very hard for our salary, as you can see from other Pool professionals who have responded.
Andrew
www.Poolguy.fr
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31/05/2008, 12:27
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Taylops
Joined on 30/05/2008
Sud-Quest
Posts 3
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Re: JUST CHLOR Chlorinators How long should they last?
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Wow...... I never thought my response would result in such a energetic response!
As readers will appreciate the individuals who responded are obviously in the pool installation/support business and therefore have a vested interest in pool products sold locally.
I stand by my earlier comments - a mark up of around a hundred percent, even given the added costs outlined by the responders, is to me excessive. Given the fact that I can purchase a Clearwater LM3-40 unit in the USA and Australia, pay postage and import duty and still only pay around 50% of the local price, I cannot see the the mark-up is justified. This is also taking the retail price - professional individuals would pay the wholesale price which is considerably lower.
So, the choice is up to the individual. If you are experienced enough to self-support your pool, are willing to take the chance that the unit will not fail in the first year (or are able to fix it if it does) and have the time to organise the purchase and shipping, you can have a good chlorinator for much less than the local price. If you are not willing to put in the time and the chance that the unit may fail put you off then purchase a unit locally!
In my view you are doing nothing unethical and, so long as it is a personal import (as opposed to importing products for re-sale), you are doing nothing illegal. It now really is a global market and in my view the quicker we stop the regional pricing strategies we currently operate under (look at European, USA, and Far East pricing of DVDs as an example) the better.
So, the choice is yours.............
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31/05/2008, 13:25
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The P's
Joined on 29/12/2007
Languedoc
Posts 59
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Re: JUST CHLOR Chlorinators How long should they last?
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I think that Andrew and I would also stand by our comments and I think you miss the point of what we are saying. I can't help feeling also (and it is not unnatural to do so from your comments) that you may not be entirely legitimate in your services and not have the right accreditations and registrations and possibly do some work on the black. It is interesting also that you claim to have looked after a number of pools yet are new to this site in offering your help and experience. And although I am nowhere near as long standing as Andrew (just look at the amount of free help and advise he has offered people), I am happy to help where I can and without obligation (bizarre for someone with a vested interest). If you have been around for a while and are qualified to do so, then please share your experiences with others. Don't critisise those that give their time to help others without reward. Of course, if people choose to check out our websites and pursue purchases on goods or services through us then great..........if they don't, it doesn't matter. It is good to help people.
I think also that we play no part in controlling or adding to the illegal process of price fixing. Indeed, if such a thing exists then we are victims of it. I for one, would love to be the beneficiary of global policies but then to have that you would need to fix the price on a global basis - and then what stops the suppliers from forcing prices up. It is sometimes infuriating that a product we may offer is cheaper in the UK than here but there are different costs in operating in the UK (I also have a pool installation company in the UK). So although there are differing prices between the UK and France, we are all governed by the same legislation on trade within the EU, which does not allow regional pricing strategies.
It is a fact that some things are cheaper in France and some things are cheaper eslewhere. I do not have an issue with people buying from elsewhere as long as people understand that it potnetially has an impact here on them personally and others professionally. But by no means are we or most good pool suppliers trying to rip people off.
John Plowright
mandmhottubs
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31/05/2008, 15:22
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Taylops
Joined on 30/05/2008
Sud-Quest
Posts 3
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Re: JUST CHLOR Chlorinators How long should they last?
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I feel I must post a (last) reply to the last posting by "Ps".
I do not offer any pool related services in France (legitimate or otherwise). The experience I have gained is from many years of owning pools in the Middle East and like you helping friends in France who have had various problems or just require general assistance. Many have found that they would like an independant view on advice they have have been given locally or have come across problems they are unable to resolve themselves.
As for "critisising those that give their time to help others without reward", I can hardly see that my postings have done this. My original post merely pointed out that many pool related products in France are over-priced when compared to identical items in other parts of the world. If it is the use of the term "rip-off" that gives this impression, it was not directed at local suppliers but at agents and producers who vary their supply rates with a view to what a particular market can tolerate.
My views on this subject are similar to crossing the Channel to buy wine (for personal consumption....!) or driving into Spain to obtain cheaper fuel which I am sure most people have no problem with.
In any case, this string seems to have moved a considerable distance from the original subject of chlorinator problems so it is probably a prudent time to terminate this subject.
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31/05/2008, 16:31
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The P's
Joined on 29/12/2007
Languedoc
Posts 59
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Re: JUST CHLOR Chlorinators How long should they last?
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 Taylops wrote: | |
This reply may be a bit late (found your post while looking for Justchlor information for a pals pool) but here are my thoughtsfrom my experience maintaining multiple pools in France.
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You didn't type this then?
I'm done.
John Plowright
mandmhottubs
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01/06/2008, 10:16
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Poolguy
Joined on 25/12/2004
Charante Maritime
Posts 767
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Re: JUST CHLOR Chlorinators How long should they last?
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Tayops
Thank you for your clarification.
For I would feel particularly aggrieved should you feel that we who work extremely hard, long hours for our business, our customers and also provide this place for advice gratis are in any way want of such avarice.
I too am not at all happy with the 100% rise in the price of fuel in the last 18 months, certainly an unjustifiable position. Similar to the 55% rise in the price of bread in the last 6 months, and 62% rise in the price of milk in the same period. The big producers whose Keynesian management practices are taking unfair advantage of the buying public are controlling the world economy. As far as the pool industry is concerned, these forces have had their effect and there are some products, which are unreasonably expensive (peroxide for example). But the cost of doing business are also high -so far as yet I have no customers in my own village, but rather most are between 1 hour and 12 hours drive away. I too am at the mercy of the out of control cost of living and as such we 'make a living' but no more than that. I would hope that you would allow us that with some grace.
Is conceivable that your comments were a 'knee jerk' and not meant to be either directed or hurtful to those of us in this position, but I (for one) regret the inferences, as they do not allow us to escape without the same tarring as the 'Agents' you accuse of unfair profiteering. If you have un understanding of Economics then you will appreciate that market forces will balance out any monopolistic style, or price fixing trends as they always do in an unregulated economies so your complaint as a consumer should be balanced amongst what else goes on in this world.
Any consumer can for example buy a swimming pool for €15k, and they can also buy the same size swimming pool €45k. The difference is in the quality, the functionality, the backup service, and the longevity. What is disturbing to me is the view by many consumers that the former should also conform to the same performance as the latter. Logic and common sense would present the view that it does not but there is not a lot of that about it seems.
Another example
A Hyundai 4X4 cost €20k and a Porsche Cayenne 4X4 cost €150k they do the same job but would you also criticize the Porsche importer for the 7 fold difference.
Suffice it to say that its not that I seek the last word but there are outstanding issues contained in the matter that I wished to exercise. You have signed off from this issue not wanting to enflame the debate which is wise, but as you have undoubted knowledge about the pool business and the world market generally perhaps you would consider also contributing your experience in a positive way providing direction and alternatives to pool owners who then have the most of all possible choices. We will all benefit from that, but they will not arrive if any of us continue to wax adversarial. It’s certainly not my style, and certainly not overly welcomed by the Forum community, I suspect.
A comment without prejudice,
Andrew
www.Poolguy.fr
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France Forum » Living » Swimming Pools ... » Re: JUST CHLOR Chlorinators How long should they last?
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