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French Artisans
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 28/03/2008, 22:46
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Gardian
Joined on 15/02/2006
Gard
Posts 1,263
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Re: Reporting illegal working
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This whole subject is very topical for us.
Nobody around here seems to think that they should pay TVA on any service provided. That's the locals & our (not Brit) residence secondaire neighbour. Where do they think the tax revenue is going to be generated for this country? It's always someone else who should be paying.
Meanwhile, they complain that the country is going down the tubes and Sarkozy is going to bankrupt them. We love them dearly, but really .........
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28/03/2008, 22:58
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BJSLIV
Joined on 23/08/2004
Posts 2,384
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Re: Reporting illegal working
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£17.43 plus tax per hour to have your grass cut .......hmmmm
Using the Cheque Emploi system the minimum wage plus charges equates to 11 euros an hour. So this probably represents the absolute lowest rate for basic labour.
If someone is providing equipment, travelling to the job a 100% markup doesn't seem unreasonable.
As to whether it is achievable in the context being discussed in this thread is perhaps another question.
Ther additional complication at present is the current rate of exchange. 22 +Vat at last years rates (£14.80 ish) were eminently more affordable AND perhaps more in line with UK rates/expectations.
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28/03/2008, 23:27
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steve
Joined on 23/02/2008
Northern Dordogne
Posts 64
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Re: Reporting illegal working
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Yes, we are very busy - took on 3 new gardens last week alone. We are now choosey as to what we take on - we dont bother with small gardens that just require the walk behind mower - its not worth unloading it - we have a minimum charge of 1 hr - if it takes 20 mins with the ride on, we charge the same. Most gardens are between 1 and 3 hrs cutting, with one or two upto 6 hrs. Dont forget, we have to buy this equipment and run it, pay out cotisations etc. Last year we quoted 20€/hr for a local job that we estimated would take 2 days to complete. We lost to another chap who charged 15€/hr, but he took 4 days to do the job as he didnt have the right kit..........We have several mowers now of all types to make our lives easier more than anything else.
We have also started to charge TVA this year with no customer complaints.
Steve
D&S Property Services
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29/03/2008, 6:30
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Tony F Dordogne
 
Joined on 10/04/2005
Small village in the Dordogne, near St Cyprien
Posts 1,409
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Re: Reporting illegal working
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As I've said on here many time before, I really have a problem with people working on the black, especially when they're effectively guests in France. I understand the French system of 5 days for the government and one day for me and if registered Brits/Dutch whoever want to do that's ok I think, it's an 'accepted' way of the whole economy working here and whilst the French tax authorities know it happens, they don't actively chase those doing it.
But there are just so many people in my area who are working wholly on the black, setting up as builders, gardeners, whatever and trying - trying only - to build houses for their 'clients', it makes me furious. One guy is wholly unregistered, was a mechanic in the UK and is working all day every day as a builder and is now starting to build a house for somebody. Another is registered as a painter and is touting for work as a builder, saying that he's built houses for people in France - I've seen an example of his painting and a wall he built, painting was *** and the wall had to be demolished and rebuilt.
And it's bizarre how may of the 'au noir' are also driving round in UK registered cars, no VEL and no carte vert either.
I have no sympathy for the people working on the black, great sympathy for those registered artisans trying to earn a decent and legitimate living here (with perhaps a little cash in hand) and if they are reported by legitimate artisans, not a problem for me. It's something that was discussed at our first council meeting and it's likely that our Canton will be looking at this sort of thing as part of it's enforcement work - I'm going to volunteer for the Commission!
Tony F
Dordogne (24)
Huguenot Trails
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29/03/2008, 7:35
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LesFlamands
Joined on 10/09/2004
24
Posts 233
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Re: Reporting illegal working
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I only report those who I have lost contracts to directly. I am then able to give details of the client and report the builder for working without a signed estimate. In a lot of cases the 'contractor' has a siret no. but has a team of stray brits who are working for cash. I've reported them to the URSSAF, Impots and Gendarmes. Sometimes the result is obvious as the site closes down but in other cases nothing much appears to happen but, as far as I know, all those I have reported over the years are no longer living in France.
What can you do when you've lost a job to someone you know doesn't have insurance?
Regards Charles
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29/03/2008, 10:14
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Frederick
Joined on 19/11/2007
Vendee 85/ Dorset
Posts 201
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Re: Reporting illegal working
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Good luck Steve ......I somtimes wish I had somone like you on my door step in the Vendee ...I have recently forked out on a self drive mower to tackle my grass as when left a few months like over winter its heading up round my knees ...I dont have a field ...but I have got enough ...
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29/03/2008, 14:11
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Jo
Joined on 06/08/2006
86, Vienne.
Posts 194
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Re: Reporting illegal working
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Just to clarify things, if someone has a siret number, does that guarentee that they are registered? Someone did mention to me it doesn't automatically mean they are, and I would like to know if I am, inadvertantly, employing someone on the black.![Confused [8-)]](/cs/images/emotions/confused.gif)
Love all, trust a few, do harm to no-one.
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29/03/2008, 15:33
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Punch
Joined on 23/08/2004
Mayenne (53)
Posts 688
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Re: Reporting illegal working
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 Jo wrote: | Just to clarify things, if someone has a siret number, does that guarentee that they are registered? Someone did mention to me it doesn't automatically mean they are, and I would like to know if I am, inadvertantly, employing someone on the black.
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If they have a Siret or Siren N° it means that they have indeed registered a business of some kind. What that business actually is, and what they are registered for is another matter. The only real way to check if the trade or profession they are excercising is what they are registered for is to ask to see their insurance and or registration details. They should be able to produce; An attestation from their insurance company showing what they are actually insured to do; A registration document (or card) from their local Chambre des Metiers ( or Chambre de commerce if they are profession liberale); and an extract KBIS.
As a guide, we pay around 3000 euros a year just for our business insurance, and are pleased to show it to anyone who asks for proof of our full cover. Alarm bells should ring if someone comes to re-do your roof and their principle activity is gardening or cleaning for instance. This is the link for my business which I give to my clients ;
http://www.cofacerating.fr/portail/entreprise_identite/identite.asp?nscrl=19943789&metier=ALL&geo=ALL&J=28/08/2007&H=11:32:24
There are several sites for checking out a siret or siren number . This one is quite good because you can search just by telephone number or surname or other criteria.
http://www.cofacerating.fr/portail/recherche_entreprise_inter/recherche_entreprise.asp?nscrl=19943789&metier=ALL&geo=ALL&idnav=bf5fe5225e8779a676be23a40f37736e&J=29/03/2008&H=16:19:06&tp=1
Here are some more;
http://avis-situation-sirene.insee.fr/avisituV2/jsp/avis.jsp
http://www.cofacerating.fr/portail/general_accueil/accueil.asp?metier=ALL&geo=ALL&idnav=
http://www.societe.com/
The other important things to remember are that may of these sites only list the "activity principle" of the entreprise according to the APE code number they have been issued with, secondary activities are not always shown. A company may well be legally registered for a related actvity that is not listed.
Finally, having a Siren or Siret number is no gurantee of insurance or good workmanship- it only shows that a company is registered. Always try to get recommendations for any major works you require having done. There are many people using false or made up Siret numbers so at least by using the sites mentioned above, you can actually see if a company has a legal entity in France.
I Hope this is useful .
www.punchardrenovation.com
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22/04/2008, 16:06
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MYVOICE
Joined on 22/04/2008
Posts 1
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Re: Reporting illegal working
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I am in the same boat and have turned a blind eye to it for the past seven years but no more I am making a list of all the ones in my area to report there are a lot of them and it has affected my work I recently gave 11 estimates and didn’t get the work but they got someone I know to do it on the black and that was the last straw for me.
I to would like help on what information I need to supply to the authorities.
please help....
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France Forum » Owning/Running ... » French Artisans » Reporting illegal working
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