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30/05/2008, 22:17 Judith Joined on 01/02/2006 Posts 301 Re: In search of Plantagenet France.  Hoddy wrote: Plenty of locals around here still speak Occitan. Hoddy You can have lessons in Occitan in Narbonne.  Very strong move towards re-introducing the language in this area.  I would be interested in learning, but suspect I'd have even more memory problems with my French vocabulary if I did so. Judith ex W1 and now in the Aude    Report

02/06/2008, 21:29 chessfou Joined on 15/11/2005 Aveyron Posts 490 Re: In search of Plantagenet France. I would be interested in learning, but suspect I'd have even more memory problems with my French vocabulary if I did so. Well, if your French is reasonable and especially if you have a little Spanish, you should find it possible to make sense of simple Occitan - have a go at the tourist info signs on ancient monuments and you may also find that your local paper has a page of Occitan at least one day a week (e.g. Sunday's "Centre Presse" in Aveyron).    Report

02/06/2008, 21:49 Judith Joined on 01/02/2006 Posts 301 Re: In search of Plantagenet France. Its the Spanish which would let me down - I'm of the two beers please level in that language I fear! But many thanks for your encouragement. In some ways it reminds me of the Cornish and Breton I have seen written and indeed also of Welsh.  I did a one day course in Welsh when I had hoped to work there nearly 10 years ago, and I realised that it was not something I was going to get to grips with easily.  It was not just the vocabulary, but the way the sentences were constructed which is totally different from those languages I already knew. Interestingly, today I attended a lecture on medieval English, and I think they all may bear some ressemblance to (or even development from) that.  Judith ex W1 and now in the Aude    Report

06/06/2008, 22:56 Jill Joined on 23/08/2004 Posts 606 Re: In search of Plantagenet France.  Judith wrote: Interestingly, today I attended a lecture on medieval English, and I think they all may bear some ressemblance to (or even development from) that.  If that aspect of language interests you, i.e. origines, then try "Adventure in English" by Melvyn Bragg.  There is also a woman who wrote a book about the evolvement of French, but I can't think of her name.  I attended a lecture by her a few years ago.  It was quite interesting the way some words went from French into medieval English, then returned to French with quite a different meaning - particularly in the legal system, I think.  I did manage to make a roughly comprehensible translation of a 13th century troubadour song a few years ago with my knowledge of French, Italian and a bit of Spanish.  I'd love to study medieval French and English.  I think the routes of language are fascinating. Jill (99)    Report

07/06/2008, 7:29 chessfou Joined on 15/11/2005 Aveyron Posts 490 Re: In search of Plantagenet France. The woman you are referring to, Henriette Walter, has written quite a few books on and around the subject. If your French is up to it, I recommend them all but especially: L'Aventure des langues en occident L'Aventure des mots français venus d'ailleurs Le Français d'ici, de là, de là-bas and, above all (for this thread): Honni soit qui mal y pense Good as those books are, minority languages (especially Irish and Occitan rarely get the credit they deserve as originators of the English and French languages).    Report

08/06/2008, 23:30 Jill Joined on 23/08/2004 Posts 606 Re: In search of Plantagenet France. Yes - thanks - that's her!  I'll have to remember to look for her books next time I'm in France - although I do have quite a lot to get through at the moment. Jill (99)    Report

09/06/2008, 22:14 Judith Joined on 01/02/2006 Posts 301 Re: In search of Plantagenet France.  Jill wrote: If that aspect of language interests you, i.e. origines, then try "Adventure in English" by Melvyn Bragg.  There is also a woman who wrote a book about the evolvement of French, but I can't think of her name.  Jill, thanks.  I knew of Melvyn's book, just never got around to reading it!  I might look at the Walter books, as quoted in a later post, if I can ever find the time.  I do have a copy of "the life and times of the English language" by Robert Claiborne, 1990, which is where some of my knowledge comes from and which re-instigated  my interest in the subject, but I admit to being a complete amateur on the subject.  Judith ex W1 and now in the Aude    Report

08/07/2008, 20:47 Jura Joined on 28/11/2005 Posts 807 Re: In search of Plantagenet France.  chessfou wrote: I would be interested in learning, but suspect I'd have even more memory problems with my French vocabulary if I did so. Well, if your French is reasonable and especially if you have a little Spanish, you should find it possible to make sense of simple Occitan - have a go at the tourist info signs on ancient monuments and you may also find that your local paper has a page of Occitan at least one day a week (e.g. Sunday's "Centre Presse" in Aveyron). I live right on the border dividing Occitan 'France' and Catalan 'France' - those words would certainly gleen an interesting reaction from my neighbours on both sides...none of them consider 'Spanish' as being a part of either of their language. In fact, don't even MENTION 'Spanish' to the Catalonians here ! I recently had a guest stay here from Narbonne - he stated quite strongly he was a 'Cathar' and claimed all people native to Narbonne were so. By the way I am directly descended from Philip III of France; his daughter Marguerite married Edward I of England (my 26th Great Grandfather) - she was his second wife after Eleanor of Castile died. I am descended from this French line You'd never know it eh... ?    Report

09/07/2008, 9:06 Just Katie Joined on 11/03/2006 Posts 3,764 Re: In search of Plantagenet France. No Jura, you would never know it.  The way he stormed Wales and Scotland, you seem far more gentle. The immigrant in the attic    Report

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