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17/06/2008, 9:30 Russethouse Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 10,318 Re: Please help.......insurance quandry While I have quite a lot of sympathy with Opas, what you are suggesting P2, is that the police start investigating cases, take that forward, where do they (or we, as in society) draw the line.Surely the onus is on the person concerned to make sure everything is in order regarding their paperwork? ( Simply changing the car details on the ferry ticket in this case) Be careful what you wish for. What I think this case underlines is the need for a uniform approach regarding identifying the vehicle you are traveling in, if this is important to the police then the ferry companies should adjust their regulations accordingly. www.quimperclub.org 99    Report

17/06/2008, 11:01 Phil & Pat Joined on 24/12/2006 Falaise, Calvados (14) Posts 245 Re: Please help.......insurance quandry  Russethouse wrote: While I have quite a lot of sympathy with Opas, what you are suggesting P2, is that the police start investigating cases... But isn't that part of their job already? In Paris they simply stared when I spoke to them in French; I never did succeed in making those idiots understand their language. Mark Twain    Report

17/06/2008, 11:21 BJSLIV Joined on 23/08/2004 Posts 2,519 Re: Please help.......insurance quandry As I said yesterday it all revolves around the precise meaning of....... It is the responsibility for the driver to prove how long the vehicle has been in the country. If the driver is unable to provide proof, just how much digging should the  police be expected to do? The answer will be interesting.    Report

17/06/2008, 12:29 opas Joined on 23/08/2004 catalonia, top of the hill en route to the Chateau Posts 2,199 Re: Please help.......insurance quandry Please re read this thread.   It all started because the police stoped a car with French plates, no offence was being commited, ie  all the tyres are legal (one of the ways we proved that the car was in France in early April...2 new front tyres) none of the lights misfunction, he was not speeding, no breath test requested, he had all paperwork needed, clean Licence(albeit French) French TDS, Brit passport (issued in Paris........no UK address to obtain a cheaper Brit version from) and last but foremost all his insurance documents.......There is no need to investigate anything there, it is a European motor certificate, look at yours it even says so on the back........there is a phone no for every number in the EU, so it is not hard to phone through to check a valid document and may I remind you he was stopped on the motorway by the Traffic cops....there is a clue in the tittle there  God help us if they cannot get a the easy bit right! These 2 then go on to be inspector Clueless and put 2 and 2 together and reach a silly figure.  There was no need for arrest, I could have faxed all the car maintenance records to that station on Saturday morning, I do not have a fax but would have knocked on doors untill I found a house with one........they had access to a 24 ins line, I only had office hours Mon to Fri. They could have used their brains and took his passprt of him, untill the said documentation came through.   But no they decided it was illegal to work whist driving on a green card. Someone find me a piece of paper that officially says that and I shall eat my Catalan Dragon hat! When this is finished(in about 5 years time, if I have not been banned before then for loosing patience) I will fill you in with all the missing gaps, as there are quite a few, but I will not publish them to the web as I do not want anyone to backtrack on their statements (ie the Police) as there are a number of issues here that really make them look stupid, nasty and malicious. I shall save my energy for the fight ahead!    Report

17/06/2008, 12:36 Maricopa Joined on 01/10/2007 Minervois, Hérault Posts 371 Re: Please help.......insurance quandry Go for it opas The Police wasted a lot of time, energy and money for the sake of a two minute phone call.  They should be made to usefully spend more, time, energy and money explaining themselves, so that lessons can be learned to prevent future visitors from Europe going through the same thing. Well done. Maricopa    Report

17/06/2008, 13:52 ErnieY Joined on 05/12/2006 W of Cahors (46) Posts 4,427 Re: Please help.......insurance quandry I will continue to watch the thread but also intend this to be my last post to it. I'm not neccessarily defending plod and you can call them stupid or incompetant or anything you like but I think it is extremely unlikely that there was any malice in their intent when Mr O was stopped, and we still don't know why that was BTW. If everything was as white on white as you say then what exactly was the reason, it surely cannot be simply because the car was on Franch plates ?  What subsequently transpired at the road side we can never know for sure, indeed the truth is that you were not their either so only have Mr O's version. That's not to say or even suggest that he's lying but in any given situation, especially a stressful one as this obviously turned into, you will always get different accounts and perceptions. The crux of the matter is that, for whatever reason or reasons, be they proven right or wrong, plod were not satisfied that all was in order and without a provable UK address to later trace him they had little if any option but to arrest and detain him. As for holding his passport, I may be wrong here (I hope not !) but I do not believe the police (yet) have the authority to summarily deprive an individual of their passport. I doubt also that your faxed documents would have been acceptable as hard evidence of anything as they are completely open to forgery. Murphy's law dictated that this was at the weekend and although the insurance helpline might be open 24/7 the vast majority of other places where information can be checked and advice sought are not, hence the delay in his release. I cannot and will not attempt to justify the crude and unjust system under which his car was impounded and he was still forced to pay for it's release depite being found completely innocent. All in all then I am still of the opinion that, other than trying to get that money back, you're on a hiding to nothing but good luck all the same.   My doctor said one drink per day, I can live with that !    Report

17/06/2008, 13:56 P2 Joined on 13/09/2006 Posts 322 Re: Please help.......insurance quandry Russethouse wrote: While I have quite a lot of sympathy with Opas, what you are suggesting P2, is that the police start investigating cases... Phil & Pat wrote But isn't that part of their job already? RH I do not know whether your comment was meant for real but I like Phil and Pat thought it was the police job of investigation. Surely, if you are accused of something it is their job to prove it - innocent until proven guilty comes to mind. The way they could prove guilt is by contacting the insurance service and being told that the car was not insured. That way they would know they have their man - or as in this case that the insurance was in order and he was innocent. Perhaps if they had investigated whether with a job in the UK you required UK insurance even if you were resident in another country they would have discovered that they were in the wrong. However, things do seem to be changing. Someone told me the other day that they had reported something to the police and the police asked them to gather some information. Perhaps all this form filling is taking up time so they cannot properly perform their job. The police might, at times, do a very difficult and harrowing job but boy do they know how to generate bad publicity. I remember once when I was a teenager I was stopped, on a dark night driving my car. The policeman in a very loud and intimidating way ordered me out of the car and was totally abhorrent in his attitude. I did not have anything on me to prove who I was but then the passenger door opened and my passenger stated 'I can vouch for him'. It was my father. There was a great deal of coughing and spluttering and with a 180 degree reversal of attitude I was told I could go. I just wonder what would have happened if I was on my own - not all police are guardian angels. Opas I wonder if it was a cold wet night when they arrested your husband - that way they spent the rest of their shift in the station with the added benefit of going to court etc. Paul    Report

17/06/2008, 14:00 Phil & Pat Joined on 24/12/2006 Falaise, Calvados (14) Posts 245 Re: Please help.......insurance quandry  BJSLIV wrote: It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. I fear that their get out out will be based around the legislation that lies behind this phrase on the DVLA / OpenGov  website. Concerning the temporary import of EU vehicles It is the responsibility for the driver to prove how long the vehicle has been in the country. As you rightly say, the Direct.Gov web site says: European Union vehicles It is the responsibility for the driver to prove how long the vehicle has been in the country. This can be achieved by producing ferry tickets. Also, from the Brittany Ferries FAQ section: "Do I need to provide my vehicle registration number at the time of booking? If you are travelling to Spain, your vehicle registration number will be taken at the check-in booth in Plymouth when you arrive. We do not currently take vehicle registration numbers for travel to France." Has anyone yet asked them why? EDIT> Interestingly, a closer read of the Direct .Gov statement assigns responsibilities as follows; "... it is the responsibility of the keeper to demonstrate that he or she is eligible to use the vehicle in the UK without registering and taxing it. It is the responsibility for the driver to prove how long the vehicle has been in the country." I don't know if the concept of keeper as distinct from driver exists in France, but it might be interesting to know what would happen if the 'keeper' was not in the vehicle. In Paris they simply stared when I spoke to them in French; I never did succeed in making those idiots understand their language. Mark Twain    Report

17/06/2008, 14:57 ErnieY Joined on 05/12/2006 W of Cahors (46) Posts 4,427 Re: Please help.......insurance quandry  Phil and Pat wrote: Also, from the Brittany Ferries FAQ section: "Do I need to provide my vehicle registration number at the time of booking? If you are travelling to Spain, your vehicle registration number will be taken at the check-in booth in Plymouth when you arrive. We do not currently take vehicle registration numbers for travel to France." Has anyone yet asked them why? Breaking my promise already but to answer this specific point: Something related to THIS maybe ? PS: Quoting does not like & it seems   My doctor said one drink per day, I can live with that !    Report

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France Forum » Living » Driving » Re: Please help.......insurance quandry

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