Re: red diesel

Driving

red diesel

dave21478 20/05/2008, 12:18

Hi,

I have just bought an old van to hack about in here, and gave it a service. The previous owner has been running it on red diesel. It has a full tank and the fuel system is all stained red.

What are the penalties if caught on the road like this in France?

Obviously a flush through with normal stuff, and a new fuel filter wil get rid of most of it, but the red staining will be there a long time yet.

Re: red diesel

tracteurtom 20/05/2008, 12:49
Run some fuel system / injector cleaner through it. Or some Biodiesel, that'll clean it up, but this could also find other problems (weak seals in the pump). If you do run some biodiesel, change the fuel filter a couple of times and clean the fuel pickup in the tank as Biodiesel cleans like no other !

Re getting caught ? I suspect there's many a Farmer running on their 4x4 on port wine and I would think the penalties are severe but it doesnt stop them. Its your choice / decision, not that I recommend it.

Re: red diesel

Bob T 20/05/2008, 14:05
When you say the fuel system is all stained red, what parts are you talking about? Most of the inside of the fuel system cannot be seen. I can understand the filter showing a little red, but the stain in red diesel is to stain the fuel and not the components. I would be suprised if the inside of the fuel pump and fuel lines (the metal ones) were red.
There would not be enough red dye in the filter to stain a full tank of white diesel and show up on the chemical test, which is the way that red diesel checks are carried out.

Bob T 24
http://bikesindordogne.blogspot.com/

Re: red diesel

dave21478 20/05/2008, 14:49

Its a paper cartridge type filter. This is all red obviously, as is the inside of the housing for it. The fuel lines under the bonnet are normally transparent plastic, but they are now tinged red.

Yes, the red dye is to colour the diesel, but its job is also to stain the fuel system components too. In UK a determined revenue officer can tell approximately how many tankfulls ago a car was last used on red despite using normal fuel since, by looking at the residue of the dye left in the system. Whether they are this thorough in france, I dont know and dont wish to find out.

Re: red diesel

tracteurtom 20/05/2008, 18:06

dave21478 wrote:
Its a paper cartridge type filter. This is all red obviously, as is the inside of the housing for it. The fuel lines under the bonnet are normally transparent plastic, but they are now tinged red.

Yes, the red dye is to colour the diesel, but its job is also to stain the fuel system components too. In UK a determined revenue officer can tell approximately how many tankfulls ago a car was last used on red despite using normal fuel since, by looking at the residue of the dye left in the system. Whether they are this thorough in france, I dont know and dont wish to find out.

Well Dave I kinda agree with BobT24. You said that the system was stained and thats why I replied as I did, but following an Apres-midi rotovating (my mind wanders on tasks like this !!). I thought, surely RD doesnt stain the hardware, its just the filter ?? I've 2 old tractors that have used RD since they were new (I assume !!) thats a min of 40 years and there is no evidence of RD use, except the filter of course. I suspect that your tale of the Revenue Officer is just scare mongary, that or they need to get a life !!!

Any diesel motor requires air tight fuel lines. The vac from the pump is quite powerful and if there is a leak, air will be draw in and thats not good - particularly if you have a rotary pump that relies on the fuel for its lube and can be the demon all of for starting problems. So you could, justifiably replace all the flexible fuel lines. This operation alone can transform an old nail into a swish motor, and it would get rid olf the staining you refer to. I'd also run some injector cleaner though it !

Re: red diesel

andyh4 21/05/2008, 9:27
But if it has a plastic fuel tank - and most are - the staining will be there forever, or as near as damit.

Andy

Re: red diesel

TefkaC 21/05/2008, 9:36

It's virtualy impossible to remove all traces of red diesel dye from the system, having said that it would by a pretty orrible copper who took it any further than a visual check? Drain or run it out mate change the filter and carry on...

Charlie.

Re: red diesel

tracteurtom 22/05/2008, 13:39

andyh4 wrote:
But if it has a plastic fuel tank - and most are - the staining will be there forever, or as near as damit.

and you can see red inside the confines of a black plastic fuel tank can you ?????????????????????

as said, forget it, just use the van. I always assumed that you had to be caught commiting a crime for the evidence to stick. I doubt very much that slight traces of red in inaccessible places is sufficient evidence. If questioned, just say the truth, it was the previous owner 'onest guv ! But then one should never make assumptions Wink [;-)]

Re: red diesel

Martinwatkins 22/05/2008, 14:06
I've often wondered about all this red dye business. Some of you will know that when you have a domestic tank filled up the delivery lorry may have to make allowance for the "next" delivery (whether it's another tank chez vous or the next customer). For a given delivery lorry they know the capacity of the pipe that links the lorry to the delivery nozzle. For us in Devon it's 80 litres. So if say we're having kerosene delivered and the next customer has ordered red diesel they will stall the delivery at (x - 80) l, swap over the chamber that's being pumped on the lorry, then start pumping again for the last 80 litres, the "new" fuel type pushing the last of the "old" delivery through, and stopping exactly at the nozzle. So the next customer then receives correctly ab initito whatever they've ordered, including what's already now sitting in the pipe.

Well that's the theory, in practice I've seen the colour change for the last few litres and red dye go into a tank of white DERV (le blanc) or - in the UK - a kerosene tank (where of course the dye doesn't matter).

But if thse few litres of red goes into a DERV tank (which one can perfectly legally have) I would have thought they could show up in a test, given how detailed these can be.

So what happens then - do you show HMRC the DERV tank and say - "that's what was delivered"?

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