Just a note.
Underfloor heating is perfect for a evacuated tube solar system as it runs on lower temps than radiators.
If you want to know more about how to get your heat Free (end ecologically) then PM me and I keep you informed of the installation on my house.
Andrew
Recommend you use electric UFH, ground floor only - even on buildings with high ceilings the heat penetrates the fabric of the house very well. If you have bathrooms upstairs then maybe consider UFH for these.
Electric UFH is much more controllable than wet and in the event of faults wet systems are just not easily fixed. It is also worth mentioning that with wood the temp must never reach 27 degrees as the floor can be irreparably damaged - with eloectric UFH the thermocouples are actuall in the floor itself so the situation does not arise.
Good luck with the projects
Marc
We have geothermal underfloor heating downstairs and via radiators on the 2nd floor as we also have wooden floors, if we could turn back time it wood have been better to have had concrete floors and underfloor heating upstairs also ( I would have liked a stone floor!!). You can nowadays have underfloor with a floating wooden floor with special parket ( kiln dried drier!) On the matter of Electric underfloor, our friends have this on a much much smaller scale, a relatively new installation and they had to turn if off half way through winter and resort to a parafin heater as the electric bills were so high.
Lilly
Hi Lilly,
We have underfloor heating both down and upstairs. Our house is about 14 years old and the system has been in since it was built. During the winter we only have the heating on downstairs, apart from the bathroom upstairs as we find it gets too hot. We have a logburner as well, but that is really for ambience as we don't seem to need often.
Regarding a solar sytem with evacuated tubes, I agree with Poolguy. You could run your hot water and heating system from it during the winter, topping up if required from your boiler. During the summer months, you should be able to divert the extra hot water to heat a pool. Electric underfloor heating is expensive and will only get dearer, even if you have superb insulation. You are far better off going for solar heating using evacuated tubes. The payback time is a few years and obviously almost free after that. Also, you will receive money back on your tax return. I'm installing my own solar panel at the moment (when I can find the time!). At the time I purchased the system, it was too expensive to have another coil put into the water tank to link up with the underfloor heating. However, if we decide to stay here, I will look at installing an additional tank and system to do just that.
Regards
Paul
Paul Bradford wrote: Regarding a solar sytem with evacuated tubes, I agree with Poolguy. You could run your hot water and heating system from it during the winter, topping up if required from your boiler. During the summer months, you should be able to divert the extra hot water to heat a pool. Electric underfloor heating is expensive and will only get dearer, even if you have superb insulation. You are far better off going for solar heating using evacuated tubes. The payback time is a few years and obviously almost free after that. Also, you will receive money back on your tax return. I'm installing my own solar panel at the moment (when I can find the time!). At the time I purchased the system, it was too expensive to have another coil put into the water tank to link up with the underfloor heating. However, if we decide to stay here, I will look at installing an additional tank and system to do just that. Regards Paul
As regards cost of running electric UFH I can only surmise that the system Lily eluded to (friends installation) was badly designed - this is easily done and the watts per linear metre is the primary calculation. There are also a number of systems where the efficiency losses are high because of the quality of cable / components used.
We have also coupled an electric energy saver (power factor correction unit) with one system and this has provided even better results with the electric UFH.
Both wet and electric systems can be laid under all types of floor finishes but as Lily mentions concrete provides a better thermal mass and tends to respond quicker. It the 'TOG' rating (just like quilts) of the materials that matters.
Geothermal is generally considered best due to the Co-efficient of performance (CoP) which is generally 4:1 or greater. That said, you also have to remember the cost of installing a GSHP whihc is substantial and motors / compressors do wear - we do know of some whose system components have failed prematurely (to be fair one was because of bad maintenance by the customer) with cost of repair being prohibitive - you can of course usually only get the spares from the particular supplier / manufacturer with the associated high costs of such.
The CoP of aerothermal is getting better so this technology is becoming a favourable option for heating.
I have to say categorically that Electric underfloor heating is neither expensive to purchase or costly to run. It depends on whose system is chosen and how well it was designed.
Unfortunately I have to disagree about the viability of solar for central heating - domestic hot water yes great, heating, NO. Unless you have a substantial Thermal store it just cant cut it - here is what a colleague of one of the above gents says regarding solar for heating.
There is 10 times more sun energy in the summer than in the winter. (this is the reason for the different seasons, after all). Therefore you immediately have the problem that the bulk of the energy is at the wrong time of year. The other problem with using solar to heat your house is that it is not present at the times when it is really cold - at night, on very overcast days, in winter evenings etc.In practice you can provide a significant amount of supplementary heat in the spring and autumn (and some people have implemented such systems), but the contribution in the winter will be minimal, restricted to sunny days, but you will need to fit many more panels, as heating a house is a lot larger task than heating an insulated cylinder of water. Solar water heating on the other hand, can be effective even in the winter, as the amount of heat required is considerably less than that required to heat a house.
I do have some reports on this subject if you wish to study it further.
Well, guess thats really confused things now so extract what you can
Hi Ecopower,
My friends installation was carried out by a very reputble electrician heating engineer and knowing these friends no cost cutting would have been applied to the materials, now allowing for the fact that mistakes can ad do happen may be this was the case but than that would have to be true to all installations no matter by whom they are laid.
When we did the research (very extensive it was too!) and not entirely by me, I flick the switches and make tea !!! ( proberbly not doing myself justice really but you get my point) Comparing Devis for good quality oil / gas systems and if you factor in the reimborsement of 50% on the specific material and labour costs of geothermal linear method it was very much in favour of going Geo as it came out the same for gas, or oil but with this option being cheaper to run after! On top of this we did all the donkey work , dug out the area for the capture and re filling after, posing of all the radiators and we laid the underfloor pipework and insolation with a scematic of course and the patron came and checked that we had indeed installed properly no kinks etc and quite a few other things, we had them do the important stuff involving electricity and anything we felt that a true professional should thus also preserving our guarentee. Incidently would your friends problems have been covered by the extensive Guarentee for premature wear and tear and I fail to see what they have neglected to do that is specific to a geothermal installation and would the same neglect have caused problems for any other system including Electric.
I would be intersted to know how effective these evacuated tube panels work as don't they work on UV so it is not so necessary for it to be sunny. My opinion so far is in an ideal world and to an extent money as side if you can fork it out up front, a dual solar plus geo is worth considering. We have a River with good continuas flow and I would like to harness this really but I'm not sure how the Architec de Batiment de France or whom ever would feel about that!!.
Not really changing the subject by the font has changed and I don't mean to shout or stand out, but I'm not quite sure how to change it back?
Lilly wrote: Hi Ecopower, My friends installation was carried out by a very reputble electrician heating engineer and knowing these friends no cost cutting would have been applied to the materials, now allowing for the fact that mistakes can ad do happen may be this was the case but than that would have to be true to all installations no matter by whom they are laid. When we did the research (very extensive it was too!) and not entirely by me, I flick the switches and make tea !!! ( proberbly not doing myself justice really but you get my point) Comparing Devis for good quality oil / gas systems and if you factor in the reimborsement of 50% on the specific material and labour costs of geothermal linear method it was very much in favour of going Geo as it came out the same for gas, or oil but with this option being cheaper to run after! On top of this we did all the donkey work , dug out the area for the capture and re filling after, posing of all the radiators and we laid the underfloor pipework and insolation with a scematic of course and the patron came and checked that we had indeed installed properly no kinks etc and quite a few other things, we had them do the important stuff involving electricity and anything we felt that a true professional should thus also preserving our guarentee. Incidently would your friends problems have been covered by the extensive Guarentee for premature wear and tear and I fail to see what they have neglected to do that is specific to a geothermal installation and would the same neglect have caused problems for any other system including Electric. I would be intersted to know how effective these evacuated tube panels work as don't they work on UV so it is not so necessary for it to be sunny. My opinion so far is in an ideal world and to an extent money as side if you can fork it out up front, a dual solar plus geo is worth considering. We have a River with good continuas flow and I would like to harness this really but I'm not sure how the Architec de Batiment de France or whom ever would feel about that!!. Not really changing the subject by the font has changed and I don't mean to shout or stand out, but I'm not quite sure how to change it back?
Hello Lily,
As regards electric UFH it is impossible to comment on a specific installation other than to say that from case studies our system comes out very well.
For Geothermal with wet UFH you have done exceptionally well to undertake a lot of the work yourselves with a huge reduction in costs by doing so. You are right that for a good quality boiler the cost can also be high but the savings you have made with your own labour are huge. Fot that I can only congratulate you.
I'm not sure I understand the point you elude to as regard our friends installation?
Solar evacuated tube systems work exceptionally well for domestic hot water and for pools. You will find lots of information about these systems but I speak from experience. They work and you are right, they work on UV and as the tubes are evacuated ambient temperature has virtually no effect upon perfromance.
If you have a dependable water source whihc runs through your property then do try and use it. Absolutely the best form of renewable energy period.
Kind regards
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