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Swimming Pools in France
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 12/04/2008, 18:12
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mjw
Joined on 12/04/2008
Posts 4
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Hi all,
In the process of commissioning a pool. One of the suppliers has recommended a BIO-UV ultraviolet unit for the water treatment. In theory it sounds great - no chemicals apart from a little dosing plus pH regulator. I'm struggling to find anyone with any experience of using this type of kit rather than the more common Chlorine units. I'm going to need to close the pool out of season and it will probably be a resin coque type.
Views gratefully received. Many thanks.
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14/04/2008, 14:33
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Poolguy
 
Joined on 25/12/2004
Charante Maritime
Posts 746
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These types of machine 'come a go', in and out of favour.
They received their highest popularity in sanitising bottled water as it is easy and cheap to pass a regulated flow of water under the UV lamp and Zapp any of the bugs still living after extensive filtration. Then the water is bottled and the cap sealed so no more contamination can take place - good result.
This process has real dissadvantages in a swimming pool situation where the water is open to the elements and all of that ' environment' trying to get in there and live as we know it does so well. So if you have a UV lamp treatment then, you are pumping water from a contaminated pool passing it under the lamp killing the bugs and sending it back into a contaminated pool. So its contaminated again. Now the promoters claim that the rate of sanitization can keep pace with the proliferation of bugs.. REALLY? ![Blink <img src=]() " src="/cs/images/emotions/blink.gif">
During summer with high temps, a lot of swimmers, and perhaps a few nitrates and phospates from bird poo dropped in for good measure I have seen pools turn green in front of me (within a hour).
So I can assure you that this system is inadequate for all occassions unless your pool is very very small and you would have to suppliment with chlorine as wellif you want to run a sterile pool and look after the health of your family. So wat's the point?
There is no real reason to be affraid of or want to move away from chlorine, it has worked well for centuries and if you understand how to manage it, it will work well for you. If you don't want to know anything about it at all and want the pool to look after itself, then you need an automatic doser. see my website http://www.poolguy.fr/products/product-sanitization.htm
I hope that this has been of help.
Andrew
www.Poolguy.fr
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14/04/2008, 15:57
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Hagar
Joined on 28/10/2004
Posts 252
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Andrew - whilst I admire the time you spend on here giving advice to people with their pools - and can see that a lot of that advice is very valuable- I do have difficulty with your repeated stance that chlorine and the automatic dosing system ( that you happen to sell) is THE solution and every other system has serious faults/drawbacks.
To the OP - I installed a Bio-UV system in 2004 in an open pool of 14m x 6m. I have never had a serious problem with the system and am very satisfied with both its performance and the water quality. It was originally recommended by a pool consultant when I asked them for a system that required minimum intervention on my part.
The only time I have ever had a "green pool" was when an electrical fault caused the pump to trip out whilst we were away for 6 weeks.
The pool is completely open - I don't use a pool cover and I don't shut it down in Winter.
From November to April I don't add any chemicals other than a very small amount of liquid PH- (suplhuric acid solution) which is dosed automatically. Through the summer I use a total of 30 litres of BIO-UV Remenant - again dosed automatically. That's 30 litres into a pool with capacity in excess of 100,000 litres.
Everybody who has used the pool has commented on the water quality and its "softness".
Downsides are the remenant is expensive - €10 per litre. The initial cost is high compared to other systems. The repacment sensors for the PH doser are expensive and may need replaced every couple of years (c €300!) .
Were I to build another pool I would go for BIO-UV again - Only difference is I would use Zeolite in the filter rather than sand (as recommended by Andrew).
Hope that helps
Hagar
p.s you can see some testimonials for BIO-Uv on their website www.bio-uv.com including a significant number of large municipal pools.
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14/04/2008, 20:01
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buckdendave
Joined on 05/03/2008
Posts 26
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This looks quite interesting. UV is widely used for sanitising water for various purposes, as your reference website shows. But like Andrew I would normally expect to see something else added (e.g. chlorine, etc.) as a residual, and for all the reasons that he gives. Maybe if the flow rate past the UV source is high enough (relative to the pool capacity) and the power is sufficient then the system can cope on its own. Looking at the flow rates given on the various residential pool products offered, this looks feasible. It would have to run for most of (if not all) the time though. Still, the power consumption looks very moderate (less than a pump) so not too much of an imposition. I wonder how long the lamps remain effective?
Then again I wonder what the Bio-UV remanence is (the word doesn't mean much to me, but my french is poor) - it sounds like an algaecide or something similar - very much a chemical additive. Which suggests that UV alone really isn't enough.
David
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14/04/2008, 21:47
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mjw
Joined on 12/04/2008
Posts 4
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Thanks all for your input. I have been doing a fair amount of research around all the things that need considering when installing a pool - but it's obviously a complex area with lots to learn. Plus I'm fitting the research around all the other things that need doing when having a house built in France!
I met with 2 pool installers in France and as well as getting completely differing views regarding construction in the Hourtin area (high water table apparently), I also got very different advise with the sterilisation.
Having read Andrew's excellent web site I went armed with a full 39 page Chemigem operating manual - only to get it poo pooed by one of the installers as being expensive to maintain and unreliable when sensors fail.His solution being a Sterilor salty system.
It seems that the suppliers package a complete solution (construction/filters/sterilisation/heating) and are reluctant (completely inflexible) to mix and match approaches.
Encouraged to hear that someone has a BIO-UV system installed and is happy with it - but a bit concerned that the running costs may be a bit high.
More food for though (sigh). Many thanks again all.
mjw (Martin)
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14/04/2008, 21:49
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Jonzjob
Joined on 23/08/2004
Nr Carcassonne, 11
Posts 2,525
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I do know that Andrew sells this kit, BUT it works!
The idea of zapping the water with UV is great, but there is the water that is in the pool that will not go through the pump/filter system for a while. It is always going to happen that any pool is going to have 'dead spots' that are going to be very slow at getting the water though the pump. They are not going to be 'sanitised' as often as they should and the only way to make sure that the water is clean is to put it in a situation where it has enough, not more, sanitiser to keep it clean. UV, in my humble opinion will not reach these corners because it is only sanitising te water passing through the light. Yes, great if you could zap the complete pool with a light in the corner of the pool itself, but it isn't.
I had a look at the web site and I must say that I didn't gain much from it? Perhapse as Buckendave said there is something being chcked in to make it work???
I will continue to go along with our auto chlor/PH system. No funny smells, no having to have a shower after a swim, no funny hair colour apart from my natural GREY and no stinging eyes. If you have a chlor pool and you are suffering any of these things then I would have a VERY carefull look at the chlo/PH levels in your pool because they are wrong!!!!! While you are there check the TA, total solids and the cyanuric acid levels. They all go to a healthy pool whatever type of sanitisation you use?
John.
The only difference between the men & the boys
is the size & the shape & the price of their toys!!
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15/04/2008, 10:18
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Hagar
Joined on 28/10/2004
Posts 252
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John - I am absolutely sure Andrew's system works just as you say - my point was that its not the ONLY solution.
You are quite right that UV treatment on it's own is not enough - for a full treatment you need to add a disinfectant that remains in the water. That is the "remenant" I referred to. BIO-UV offer two types. In both cases the active ingredient is Hydrogen Peroxide. You can also use Chlorine or Bromine which is what the municipal pools in France do.
I prefer to use Hydrogen Peroxide as it disperses naturally , reasonably quickly, and leaves no residual in the pool (one less thing you have to control/manage). Yes it is far less effective than chlorine at "killing" but combined with the UV treatment works very well. An added bonus is I can use the backwash for watering the garden.
UV and Hydrogen Peroxide is approved by the Australian authorities for indoor public pools. One of the reasons it is used is that it avoids the build up of chlorine gases that have been shown to cause health problems for pool attendants and competitive swimmers.
To repeat - I am not saying this is the only solution - or even the best - but it works for me (and quite a few others judging by the business growth reported by BIO-UV)
rgds
Hagar
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15/04/2008, 12:25
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Jonzjob
Joined on 23/08/2004
Nr Carcassonne, 11
Posts 2,525
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15/04/2008, 14:35
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Hagar
Joined on 28/10/2004
Posts 252
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![Big Smile [:D]](/cs/images/emotions/biggrin.gif)
Re: BIO-UV
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15/04/2008, 21:23
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mjw
Joined on 12/04/2008
Posts 4
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Thanks for the posts John & Hagar - all adding to top up my knowledge on these things.
As I stated earlier, i was finding it difficult to introduce a mix and match solution. The installers I spoke with (at length) seemed to want to sell their complete solution. Certainly they didn't appear too enthusiastic about me introducing the ChemiGem approach.
Does anyone know if it is typical that you have to go with an installers whole solution or is it easy to find someone to install the groundworks/pool and perhaps someone else to fit your required sanitisation solution?
It seems to me in France that suppliers of most things quote "insurance/guarantees" as a barrier to dividing works. I even came up against this with a stove installer - nobody wanted to fit one if I sourced/supplied it (at a much lower cost) myself.
So, someone to fit the pool/pump/filter, someone else to supply and fit the sanitiser? Possible? Anyone taken this approach with success?
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France Forum » Living » Swimming Pools ... » BIO-UV
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