Hi,
Could anyone clarify what happens when a holder of an E121 due to long term incapacity reaches U/K state retirement age. My understanding is that the incapacity E121 has to be exchanged for a retirement E121 & that entitlement to benifits in both U/K & France would be affected.
We are trying to establish the facts & procedures for the members of our association, Charente Limousine Exchange.
If anyone has any information or has experience of this situation we would be pleased to hear from you.
www.charente-limousine-exchange.com
Tony
As I understand it, Incapacity Benefit is only available for people of working age, (and who have paid the required amount of NI contributions), who are unable to work, and therefore surrendered when you become eligible for state retirement pension, which is in effect a replacement benefit.
If you are in receipt of Disability Living Allowance, this is replaced at pensionable age with Attendance allowance, neither of which is means tested, and continues to be paid during retirement, and is also one of the benefits under review by DWP regarding eligibility for exportation following the ECJ ruling of October 2007.
I think that there is an aspect of rothrugby's question which is a very valid point, which has not yet been answered, and which may apply to many people who have been forced to take early retirement on health grounds.
When a person reaches official retirement age, I am clear that monetary payments from UK such as incapacity benefit, carers allowance, old age or state pensions, etc. will change. For example the incapacity benefit will be replaced by the state pension.
However, if we consider only the benefit entitlement that an E121 brings to the holder of the E121 in France what, if any, medical benefits might change?
That is, on reaching state retirement age will an E121, which was awarded due to invalidity, be replaced by an E121 awarded for reaching state retirement age? If so what are the differences in benefit under the French health system?
For example, a person who has an E121 due to invalidity, will receive in France 100% reimbursement of CPAM allowed scale of charges (convention) on ALL medical items, for ALL illnesses, except blue label medicines which is 35%, spectacles and dentists. Also any hospital, doctor or specialists costs which exceed 100% of convention are not covered.
I doubt if a top up insurer would be pleased to insure such a person reaching state retirement age, particularly if they were keeping poorly and incurring a lot of medical costs. If they did I imagine that they would charge a fortune in premiums, but I have not asked, and I am not asking that question on this thread.
When that person reaches 60 or 65 will their E121, which is based on invalidity, be replaced by an E121 based on state retirement age?
If so will they lose their 100% allowance? After all they are still an invalid, and not a healthy retiree!
Or does the E121 based on retirement age also give cover of 100% of CPAM approved scale of charges on all items?
If not, any ideas why not?
David
Benjamin,
Mrs. Benjamin seems to have direct experience of exchanging her long term incapacity benefit E121 for a state retirement age E121.
If it is not too personal a question, can you tell us what, if any, differences she found in medical allowances in France based on the different E121 forms?
David wrote:Benjamin, Mrs. Benjamin seems to have direct experience of exchanging her long term incapacity benefit E121 for a state retirement age E121. If it is not too personal a question, can you tell us what, if any, differences she found in medical allowances in France based on the different E121 forms? David
Hi Benjamin,
Thanks for your very helpful reply. I agree with your point that receipt of an incapacity benefit does not automatically give entitlement to 100% reimbursement in France.
However, if your E121 is issued for "Invalidity", then this does give entitlement to 100% reimbursement on all matters, not just the 30 or so ALDs.
Coops,
I fear you have it exactly correct. On reaching state retirement age, an E121 issued for invalidity would have to be exchanged for an E121 based on reaching state retirement age. It seems to me that the main difference is that, as you say, the change will mean losing the 100% allowance on illnesses not on the ALD list, and having to take out top up insurance.
This seems to me to be a bit harsh, as the invalid is still an invalid, rather than a healthy retiree. Further, a UK person (I do not know about France) having been an invalid for a lengthy period of time, the invalid's private or company pension, if they have one, is likely to be much less than that of a healthy retiree. If the people only have the basic state pension for income, then how can they afford top up insurance? Will the top up insurance be more expensive for an invalid than a healthy retiree?
I really cannot see the justifiable reasoning of taking away the 100% allowance on non ALD illnesses, just because an invalid reaches state retirement age. After all, there is no change in work status.
I wonder if, when CPAM ask for the replacement E121, there is any way for an invalid to appeal to the UK, and request a replacement E121 based on invalidity so they can retain the 100% allowance on all matters? Has anyone researched this aspect?
Certainly, it is a UK matter. If one can keep one's head down - as in Benjamin's o/h's case - then fine, but if CPAMs are clamping down then this issue will raise its head again and again.
We (FHI) asked elsewhere for suggestions for where our group might go next, and I think this subject is worthy of scrutiny, at least. I'm pretty certain this is why Mr Fulton mentioned it to me!
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