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04/04/2008, 8:09 TWINKLE Joined on 11/03/2006 Tarn 81 Posts 3,835 Re: DLA some movement Does 'Inability to Speak Native Language' count as an invalidity?  If so - then that should be easy to pull off at the assessment  If proper assessment had existed in the first place for individual claims we wouldn't be in this position today.  This is going to cost a fortune to control now and more importantly a lot of stress and unpleasantness for the claimants who really are entitled to IB. Someone who has MS or chronic athritis maybe having a 'good day' when they are assessed- does this mean that they are fit to work all year round or just on the days when they are feeling some respite?    Report

04/04/2008, 8:35 ali-cat Joined on 15/12/2005 Charente Maritime Posts 1,089 Re: DLA some movement  TWINKLE wrote: Someone who has MS or chronic athritis maybe having a 'good day' when they are assessed- does this mean that they are fit to work all year round or just on the days when they are feeling some respite? Exactly Twinks.  The day I went for my assessment (especially after the 40 mins car journey) I was virtually bent double.  Had I been having one of my rare "good days" the doctor, who did not know me, could have easily decided (in the space of the 10 minutes) that I was capable of working everyday.  This is the main reason that past medical notes have to be taken into account. The problem for the "genuine" claimants is that they are the ones who won't exaggerate their disability or illness.  The "fakers" will be the ones who will lay it on with a trowel!! Many years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this.    Report

04/04/2008, 8:59 Russethouse Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 9,940 Re: DLA some movement On the other hand a lady I know who had ME (or has, depending on your view) has been back at work for some months now - if she had been assessed  as qualifying for benefit, would it be right that she continue to get it even though she has been able to work for nearly a year ? It's a complex and vexed question. Ron is correct though - there are moves afoot to re assess claimants and get those who can go back to work into employment or they will lose the benefit, there is no logical reason to think that will not apply to those who are living abroad. - I doubt only honest claimants ever move to France, there is no reason to think that there will not be the same cross section as everywhere else. www.quimperclub.org 99    Report

04/04/2008, 9:32 cooperlola Joined on 05/05/2006 72 - Sarthe - home of les 24 heures du Mans Posts 6,408 Re: DLA some movement It is of course, entirely naive to imagine that everybody claiming any benefit (of any sort) is going to be honest.  People cheat all the time, be it by working on the black, pretending to be ill, or whatever. But the assessment - however independent - which decides your future ability not only to claim the benefits - but also to live legally in France - should surely consist of more than a brief interview and examination by one doctor? I personally know very well, two people here on IB.  Both have helped us out on occasions with odd things around the place, as we have helped them.  In both cases, they can manage to work for a little while then - after an hour or so - they are completely poleaxed and have to sit down and rest - often for a considerable time.  Both, if they overdo it, are often in bed for days afterwards.  They deserve better than a brief examination by a doctor in whose interests it will be (perhaps less so if they are abroad, but certainly in the UK) to "get them back to work".  But then I guess, it will be the poor employer (and unlimately - yes, the tax payer when they are obliged to take time off work because it has proved too much for them) who will foot the bill when they can't fulfil their employment contracts because they are just not up to full time work. Weed out the cheats by all means - but this is not the way to do it. Healthcare Issues Site    Report

04/04/2008, 10:13 Ron Avery Joined on 29/11/2004 Aveyron 12 Posts 3,288 Re: DLA some movement  cooperlola wrote: But the assessment - however independent - which decides your future ability not only to claim the benefits - but also to live legally in France - should surely consist of more than a brief interview and examination by one doctor? Its not your ability to claim benefits that is being assessed Coops its your ability to work.  The whole point of an assessment is to see if the recipient of incapacity benefit should continue to do so or if their condition has improved enough that that they can now work and should go onto job seeker's allowance not whether they can stay in France or not, that with respect is totally irrelevant. How do you propose its done? " Can you work?"  "No!" " well stay on the IB then"? The whole issue about keeping IB for your people is the associated  E121 ie not their ability to work, but their ability to keep living in France through having an E121, I'm sorry but that is not what IB is meant for.   IB is meant for people who cannot do work due being incapacitated not those who have moved away from the UK and have no intention of ever working again, improvement in condition or not . A lot of jobs nowadays require very little physical effort and require sitting on one's backside, well within the means of most people, and I'm sorry but if those who are disabled through thalidomide, accidents or had polio like some of my ex colleagues can do a days work then so can a lot of these others who have decided they will not work again and based their futute plans on that premise.   Why not post a sensible answer, people will appreciate it more    Report

04/04/2008, 10:26 Russethouse Joined on 23/08/2004 Forum Moderator Posts 9,940 Re: DLA some movement The argument here probably stems from the fact that many benefit recipients see the same GP or assessor who is just repeating 'more of the same'. This could mean that cheats know only too well how to 'press the buttons' to continue getting benefits'. In order to prevent this it has been decided that an unbiased assessor will be used, without notes. To be honest most claimants know the history of their illness well enough to describe it if requested. It would be entirely inappropriate if it was only  UK resident claimants had to go through this process so those living abroad do too. Of course for some this is fraught, especially if they have 'counted' on the benefit they are getting to maintain their way of life in another country, but if the Government has decided that being able to work doesn't necessarily have be in your old trade or profession then it has to be across the board, not just for those in the UK. www.quimperclub.org 99    Report

04/04/2008, 11:04 cooperlola Joined on 05/05/2006 72 - Sarthe - home of les 24 heures du Mans Posts 6,408 Re: DLA some movement Whilst I agree with you, R/H the consequences are worse for those here.  If an IB E121 is lost, unless the claimant can find work immediately, they lose their E121 and thus their legal right to live here. Without private health insurance (which they are now obliged to have) they cannot legally live here.  Unlike those of us who were lucky enough either to be in CMU already, or had E106s - these people are not covered by the January statement. Any newcomers to France who arrive with an IB based E121, who subsequently lose it through an assessment, must then pack up and leave, as the accident de vie provisions only apply to anybody who develops an illness or condition whilst living here. Half an hour with one doctor on a day when it's just pot luck as to how you "present" to them is just not good enough given the potential consequences.  Independent assessments are insufficient unless the panel has full access to all the medical and employment records for the person, and in a language the assessor can read.  One is allowed to be examined in Britain - but of course at your own expense. It's a tough nut to crack, I admit, but torturing the genuinely ill in this way is an inhumane way to go about this, imo.  How would you like it?  Because, make no mistake - those who are not ill are just lucky.  This could happen to any of us tomorrow.  We may not feel quite so smug and self righteous then. Healthcare Issues Site    Report

04/04/2008, 11:38 Boiling a frog Joined on 06/09/2004 Charente 16 Posts 617 Re: DLA some movement What you are saying is that it is OK to have an independant assessment of your ability to work,the precise details of which you may or may not disagree with and if found to be able to work one will be taken off IB EXCEPT.   If in receipt of IB in France: because if taken off IB one will lose the right to an E121,will have to find a job in order to continue with health care ,or leave France.   I can just imagine the outcry if this suggestion was ever mentioned in the UK         Boiling a frog    Report

04/04/2008, 11:53 cooperlola Joined on 05/05/2006 72 - Sarthe - home of les 24 heures du Mans Posts 6,408 Re: DLA some movement Or in any other country, for that matter. The point being, that even if these people are financially able to support themselves in France without IB, and pay all the healthcare contributions which anybody else pays, they aren't allowed to live here unless they work.  But I can.  Does that sound fair to you? Healthcare Issues Site    Report

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France Forum » Living » Health » Re: DLA some movement

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