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30/10/2006, 19:11 Cassis Joined on 25/12/2005 Here and there Posts 6,411 Re: Oil Heating, Hot water production and plumbing “funnies” in France Neat - BTW I've also heard our plumber ask me to pass a 'clef alain' rather than a 'clé 6 pans'.    Report

09/11/2006, 7:32 Jc Joined on 23/08/2004 Posts 752 Re: Oil Heating, Hot water production and plumbing “funnies” in France Allen key rather than hex-key.Same in English.    Report

09/11/2006, 11:03 Cassis Joined on 25/12/2005 Here and there Posts 6,411 Re: Oil Heating, Hot water production and plumbing “funnies” in France Yes, it was not lost on me!   So who came first - Allen or Alain?  Frenchified or Anglicised? Just checked Wikipeia - seems it was American to begin with: "Allen wrench" was originally a trademark of Allen Manufacturing Company in Hartford, Connecticut in 1943. In non-English speaking parts of Europe, it is usually known as an "Unbrako key" (also often misspelled as "Umbrako"), which is a brand name established in 1911. The brand is owned by SPS Technologies. In Germany and Netherlands, this type of screw is known under the name Inbus™, named after the company that invented them in 1936, Bauer & Schaurte Karcher in Neuss (Innensechskantschraube Bauer und Schaurte). (It is still known as Inbus-key - or often misspelled as Imbus-key - in parts of Europe.) In Italy it is known as brugola, after Egidio Brugola, who invented it in 1926.[1] Acknowledgment to Wikipedia.org.    Report

10/11/2006, 13:12 powerdesal Joined on 07/01/2006 ex-Sharjah U.A.E Posts 2,174 Re: Oil Heating, Hot water production and plumbing “funnies” in France Cassis, you have totally enriched my engineering knowledge, how did I ever use allen keys without such choice information, I will be forever grateful  Steve now ex-Sharjah + 50 (in France) ...........................................................................    Report

10/11/2006, 14:33 Cassis Joined on 25/12/2005 Here and there Posts 6,411 Re: Oil Heating, Hot water production and plumbing “funnies” in France Yes, I'm full of useful information, aren't I?    Report

10/11/2006, 19:59 Gluestick Joined on 22/03/2006 UK and Nord Pas de Calais Posts 2,343 Re: Oil Heating, Hot water production and plumbing “funnies” in France Interesting that you mention Unbrako, cassis. Most of the allen type HT bolts and set screws we used on formula cars in the early 70s, were made by Unbrako. GKN weren't as reliable.   "Yes, but that apart, Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?" Gluestick    Report

16/01/2007, 13:36 chenauds Joined on 16/01/2007 Posts 3 Re: RE: Oil Heating, Hot water production and plumbing “funnies” in France Happy New Year Opel Fruit - still enjoying the fruits of our central heating system which was installed and running perfectly thanks to your invalauble help and advice!    Report

03/03/2007, 17:03 Chrissie Joined on 23/08/2004 southern Tarn Posts 585 Boiler heating hot water or not? I have an economic question rather than a technical one (but I have already learnt a lot from this section!) We have a house with 21 radiators and it seemes to be generally agreed that we need a boiler of about 30KW.  The current system is an oil-fired boiler for the heating and a 300l electric water heater.  Boiler needs replacing NOW.   Elec heater is old and would need replacing in due course but works OK at present and I have just calculated it costs us approx 150 euros a year TTC to heat the water at heures creuses. (Solar water-heating options would therefore have too long a payback period to interest us.) Most successful quote to date is from plumber who is recommending (and we like the idea of) a Geminox oil-fired condensing boiler, but he also wants us to go for the version that heats the water as well.  This obviously involves larger boiler including a 100l or 120l hot water ballon.  Questions: 1. Regardless of any difference in installation cost (on which I am still trying to get a precise answer!) is this likely to end up being more economic to heat water than keeping an elec water heater?  2.  Would installing the two-function boiler mean a lot of messing around with the existing hot water feeds and returns, making installation that much more expensive? 3.  Would the boiler benefit from being in use all year round, rather than having the sudden shock of coming back on after a long, hot idle summer? 4. Are these boilers reasonably reliable or does the dual function make them more prone to breakdown than a boiler for central heating only?   (In the case of breakdown assume there would be no way to back up a hot water supply - of course in UK we had a hot water tank with an emergency immersion heater option.) 5.  Is there anything glaringly obvious that I'm not thinking about??? By the way, regarding whoever it was who has an old defunct oil tank in the garden, I was quoted 1100euros plus TVA at 19.6% (logic of 19.6 rate escapes me) last month to de-gas, cut up and remove a 5000 litre tank - but ours is in a known location of course, and above ground.  Do hope you can stop my mind from whirling...... Chrissie (81)    Report

04/03/2007, 17:04 powerdesal Joined on 07/01/2006 ex-Sharjah U.A.E Posts 2,174 Re: Boiler heating hot water or not? Your 300l electric water heater costs you 150E per year. What is the difference in price between the basic CH boiler and the larger one (including the new ballon) ?. What replacement life do you anticipate (amortisation period)? What is the additional oil cost for that DHW compared to heures creuses ( greater I suspect)? It should be noted that condensing boilers only operate in 'condensing mode' at full load or thereabouts, not at low / part load. Hence, in summer, with just DHW not CH+DHW it will not be in condensing mode and hence any perceived efficiency increase will not be there. I dont believe that boilers suffer 'shock' when being returned to service after summer, at least no more thermal stressing than any other start up from cold. The summer shut down allows you to plan the routine pre-winter servicing. Hope that gives you some ideas. Steve now ex-Sharjah + 50 (in France) ...........................................................................    Report

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