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13/05/2007, 12:03 Barbel Bob Joined on 13/05/2007 Dept 24 Posts 125 Thinking Of Moving to France and Buying a Lake Hi all, This is my first post here. I have read lots of threads about different businesses, however, there doesnt seem to be much on the "buying a lake" front. I love France and go on Holiday there every year. We (my family) have come to the decision that the UK is no longer for us and we would like to move to France, lock, stock and barrell. I have a small family to support, so I will need to work/own a business for income. After looking at many avenues, I had set my heart on buying and running a fishing lake, probably around the Limoges area. I have done some research on it, but I know I need to do much much more. Has anyone done this? Is it the type of business venture that can support a small family (me, my wife and our two lads)? Any information or pointers that someone can give me would be most gratefuly received. Many thanks Bob    Report

13/05/2007, 15:25 Blanche Neige Joined on 07/12/2005 Surrey / 17 Posts 688 Re: Thinking Of Moving to France and Buying a Lake http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/869617/ShowPost.aspx   You may like to read the above post.    Report

13/05/2007, 15:47 Eslier Joined on 02/07/2005 Forum Moderator Posts 743 Re: Thinking Of Moving to France and Buying a Lake Fishing is a popular sport in France but, as with any business, you will need to be well financed and do lots of research to be able to make a living from it.   There are some strange issues regarding access which can apply to lakes and this is something you will need to research in detail should you find something you would like to buy.  In genereal, I believe, if the lake is fed from a water source (river, stream etc.) then there are automatic public rights to fish in the lake - even if the lake itself is privately owned. There are however plenty of private lakes where this isn't a problem so it's just something to look out for and to ask the right questions of the right people about. Generally speaking, in order to make a go of things you need: enough  cash to buy the property you want (much more than the TV programs will have you believe) twice as much cash as you think it will cost for any renovations etc. enough cash to get your business up and running including lots more than you though of for marketing enough cash to cover small business losses for the first two years by the time you've paid all cotisations enough cash for the family to live on for two years. If you've got all that covered, have bought the right property in the right location (location is everything), have come up with a good business plan, and keep to your budgets then you've got a good chance of making it work.  If after two years your business still can't earn you an income then you've made some bad decisions somewhere along the line and you'll probably end up selling at a loss and moving back to the UK. In short, if you've got somewhere around £350k to £400k in cash available to you, then you stand a good chance of making it work providing you make some good business decisions. Less than that amount and it will be much more difficult but not impossible.    Report

13/05/2007, 22:16 Barbel Bob Joined on 13/05/2007 Dept 24 Posts 125 Re: Thinking Of Moving to France and Buying a Lake  Blanche Neige wrote: http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/869617/ShowPost.aspx   You may like to read the above post. Wow what a read, I will keep up with that story ;-) Thanks for pointing it out. Not the same as my situation, but I am sure I can learn from that thread.    Report

13/05/2007, 22:18 Barbel Bob Joined on 13/05/2007 Dept 24 Posts 125 Re: Thinking Of Moving to France and Buying a Lake  Eslier wrote: Fishing is a popular sport in France but, as with any business, you will need to be well financed and do lots of research to be able to make a living from it.   There are some strange issues regarding access which can apply to lakes and this is something you will need to research in detail should you find something you would like to buy.  In genereal, I believe, if the lake is fed from a water source (river, stream etc.) then there are automatic public rights to fish in the lake - even if the lake itself is privately owned. There are however plenty of private lakes where this isn't a problem so it's just something to look out for and to ask the right questions of the right people about. Generally speaking, in order to make a go of things you need: enough  cash to buy the property you want (much more than the TV programs will have you believe) twice as much cash as you think it will cost for any renovations etc. enough cash to get your business up and running including lots more than you though of for marketing enough cash to cover small business losses for the first two years by the time you've paid all cotisations enough cash for the family to live on for two years. If you've got all that covered, have bought the right property in the right location (location is everything), have come up with a good business plan, and keep to your budgets then you've got a good chance of making it work.  If after two years your business still can't earn you an income then you've made some bad decisions somewhere along the line and you'll probably end up selling at a loss and moving back to the UK. In short, if you've got somewhere around £350k to £400k in cash available to you, then you stand a good chance of making it work providing you make some good business decisions. Less than that amount and it will be much more difficult but not impossible. Thanks for the reply eisler, I will take your comments on board and knowing that the fishing business is very seasonal, I do have other avenues that I can explore for income in the quieter periods.    Report

16/05/2007, 10:20 Panda Joined on 06/02/2007 Charente, Vienne, Les Arcs Posts 527 Re: Thinking Of Moving to France and Buying a Lake Hi Bob I think that there are lots of people trying to do this in France, not surprising when you think of how popular fishing is across both the UK and France.  The issue as I see it is that many fisherman seem to underestimate the required size of operation to really get a good income from a lake.  When we were selling our last property we had many enquiries from people who believed a viable fishing business could be run from a 1 or 2 hectare lake.  If you search on here you will see postings from people like rusheslake, he (I think it's he) says you need at leat 7 hectares of water I believe to make a go of it.  you then need to consider access, will fisherman drive a long way south for fishing or would the business be better in the north etc. The other thing is you do see fishing businesses for sale, one I've seen recently only started in 2005 and they are already giving up on it, of course they may have personal issues which have driven them to sell but even so you do need to be sure you have gone through all of the numbers.  How many fishermen ,at what price and what level of occupancy will you need to keep afloat? My husband is a keen fisherman and we've been here for 4.5 years, we are very happy, we have a lake large enough to keep OH  happy (1 hectare) but prefered to buy a cheaper option and look at other income opportunities mainly because we couldn't make the numbers add up for us.  We could not afford to buy something large enough to run a fishing business that would bring in the levels of income required.  I hope you cna make a go of it, nothing like waking up in the morning and seeing your own lake stretching out in front of you. We will be waiting for updates. Panda        Report

18/05/2007, 22:12 Barbel Bob Joined on 13/05/2007 Dept 24 Posts 125 Re: Thinking Of Moving to France and Buying a Lake  Panda wrote: Hi Bob I think that there are lots of people trying to do this in France, not surprising when you think of how popular fishing is across both the UK and France.  The issue as I see it is that many fisherman seem to underestimate the required size of operation to really get a good income from a lake.  When we were selling our last property we had many enquiries from people who believed a viable fishing business could be run from a 1 or 2 hectare lake.  If you search on here you will see postings from people like rusheslake, he (I think it's he) says you need at leat 7 hectares of water I believe to make a go of it.  you then need to consider access, will fisherman drive a long way south for fishing or would the business be better in the north etc. The other thing is you do see fishing businesses for sale, one I've seen recently only started in 2005 and they are already giving up on it, of course they may have personal issues which have driven them to sell but even so you do need to be sure you have gone through all of the numbers.  How many fishermen ,at what price and what level of occupancy will you need to keep afloat? My husband is a keen fisherman and we've been here for 4.5 years, we are very happy, we have a lake large enough to keep OH  happy (1 hectare) but prefered to buy a cheaper option and look at other income opportunities mainly because we couldn't make the numbers add up for us.  We could not afford to buy something large enough to run a fishing business that would bring in the levels of income required.  I hope you cna make a go of it, nothing like waking up in the morning and seeing your own lake stretching out in front of you. We will be waiting for updates. Panda Hi Panda Thanks for the polite and intelligent reply (this place can be rough on newcomers from what I have read). 7 hectares is above my budget, especially as I need living accommodation too, which is a shame as I have the energy and drive to really make this work. I have already got over the biggest hurdle (getting the children's buy in), however, I am nothing but determined. I am over there in mid June for a few days on a scouting mission across Limousin to see what is available. Did you try and run a business from your 1 hectare lake? Not getting the lake soon will be a minor set back and I may need to put my plans back 12 months to try and gain more funds. I am not a lover of the B&B business, which is why I loved the idea of my own lake... However, the prices seem to be rising already since I started looking. So you may be in luck for when you sell yours. Fingers crossed that you make a profit on your place. Bob    Report

04/06/2007, 23:03 Andy57 Joined on 04/06/2007 Hindon, wiltshire Posts 15 Re: Thinking Of Moving to France and Buying a Lake Hi Bob. I worked as a carp angling guide in France for a couple of years and ran a 100 acre lake for a Dutch company for a year. Tis a hard game. Loads of guys out there whose dream of owning a lake and making a living from it is rapidly turning into a nightmare, the holiday market is flooded with these type of fisheries and there simply is not the demand for any more. Fish stocks are expensive (reletively) and big fish are now almost impossible to buy. 7-9 kilos fish are easy enough, but they are simply not big enough to attract enough business to sustain a new business. Plus you are going up against loads of other established lakes in that area. lakes with fish of in excess of 50 and 60lbs and then there are the numerous French run waters again with very big fish and much much cheaper to fish. You need 20 acres of water to make it a viable fishery, so loads of investment stocks wise, but then you'll find out the average Brit is scared to death of any water much over 5 acres.        Report

06/06/2007, 18:43 Barbel Bob Joined on 13/05/2007 Dept 24 Posts 125 Re: Thinking Of Moving to France and Buying a Lake Andy, thanks for the reply, I understand what you are saying. I need a few big catch's to whet the appetite of the masses to tempt them in. There doesnt seem to be a great deal of quality advertising on the web for the fishing holidays, I was kiind of hoping that my advertising ideas may give me an edge as I am able to get celebrity fishermen, (top class anglers) to my lake at the outset to take photos for advertising which should give me a boost to begin with. I am going over to have a look around limousin and the dordogne for 4 days on the16th June, however, from everything I have read, a 5-10 acres in size is not large enough for a decent business. Thanks again    Report

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