Search Sort Posts:  Oldest to newest Newest to oldest

14/11/2007, 14:50 denbag Joined on 14/11/2007 Posts 3 Invoices from French Business (operated by an English couple) Can anyone help please. First posting but have read the Forum many times, subscribed to the mag in the past and have owned a house in Var since 2001.   We have had some work done at our house by a 'friend' and neighbour, who have lived in the village for about 4 years. He and his wife  have formed a French business. The man is an 'all rounder' and has always done an acceptable job for us at a reasonable price. However, we have just received an invoice for an amount in excess of 1500 Euros which is at least double what I expected (based on previous jobs etc). The invoice only shows the total amount they want, whereas I thought that the invoice had to show the details of the parts supplied, with their price and the labour rate and number of hours. Am I wrong?   I will have to challenge them about it, but would like to be clear as to my 'rights' before I do so. Lots of lessons here about mixing friends and business.   Thanks for reading   Denbag    Report

14/11/2007, 16:19 Chas Joined on 23/08/2004 Mortagne sur Gironde, 17 Posts 314 Re: Invoices from French Business (operated by an English couple) Did you not get a devis before the job?  That is the time to query the price.  If not then you may be in trouble,  although he ought to be able to substantiate the costs. Chas 17    Report

14/11/2007, 16:31 denbag Joined on 14/11/2007 Posts 3 Re: Invoices from French Business (operated by an English couple) Sorry if it sounds naive but we didn't have a relationship (I thought!) where a devis seemed to be necessary. I appreciate that I will have  a problem, but I was really ineterested in finding out exactly what he was required to show on his facture. All jobs I have had done by French firms, such as repairing a leak in the pool house have clearly itemised the parts supplied, the rate of labour and the number of hours.   Thanks for responding, anyway. Denbag    Report

14/11/2007, 16:50 Benjamin Joined on 21/08/2005 Vendée South Posts 1,592 Re: Invoices from French Business (operated by an English couple) When we rented out our UK property we used to get invoices from an odd job man via our tardy letting agent saying things like "Attend to garage door £ 38.50". I always used to ask for a breakdown in costs and eventually the odd job man said he wouldn't do any more work at our property as we were picky (original word replaced!). Maybe it's a UK/Brit trait. Why not just approach him and say it was more than you expected based on earlier jobs and could he let you have a cost breakdown. Or has he recently registered his business and now realises that to meet the cotisiations he needs to charge a bit more? I personally don't think he has to give you a detailed breakdown if you didn't have an original devis but if he's got nothing to hide then he won't mind you asking. Try keeping it light;you may both need one another in the future. Benjamin Snips, snails and puppy dog tails    Report

15/11/2007, 0:19 J.R's gone native Joined on 16/07/2006 Picardie, Sussex Posts 1,728 Re: Invoices from French Business (operated by an English couple) Certainly a devis has to break down all the parts and the labour charge(s). Some exceptions I have had were for enduit de projection where it said Xm2 nettoyage haute pression @ XEuros/M2 Sous couche YM2 @ Y Euros/M2 etc etc. All the others were broken down as parts (albeit inflated) and labour. I am pretty sure that it is required on the facture also unless perhaps it can say "for works as described in devis1234. I never used to like being asked for a breakdown of parts and labour on quotations that I had given in the UK and feel a little sorry for the French artisans, however human nature being what it is they will mark up the parts as much as they can to make the labour seem more acceptable, and of course try to buy said parts with the maximum discount. Which begs the question why should the customer pay money up front for them to use to buy discounted parts to then resell to the customer at a marked up price? I have just reread your post again, I bet in the past you only dealt with him and he was always fair with you, and I bet that it is now his wife who is responsible for the financial side? If you challenge him he will probably just say "I have no idea, I have nothing to do with the finances now"! His wife of course should be able to justify "their" price to you. I bet that the business is more profitable now, although to be fair it has to be as he is still probably the only fee earner and now has overheads like cotisations and his wife to pay.    Report

15/11/2007, 7:20 LesFlamands Joined on 10/09/2004 24 Posts 235 Re: Invoices from French Business (operated by an English couple) From a legal point of view an Artisan should have a signed estimate for any work he is doing. I'm sure he'll be able to provide a more detailed bill. He was probably just saving himself a bit of time as you are a friend. He also needs to show his Siret no. and TVA intracomm. reg. or the appropriate exclusion clause if he is a micro entreprise. Regards   Charles    Report

15/11/2007, 8:46 Will Joined on 22/09/2004 Sussex & 50 (Mortainais) Posts 4,733 Re: Invoices from French Business (operated by an English couple) Nobody is compelled to give estimates, invoices, receipts etc but it is in their own interests to do so. Firstly, in case of disputes it needs to be made absolutely clear what was requested, carried out and paid for. Try claiming on a tradesman's insurance without full paperwork - you won't get very far (which may be why certain tradesmen don't willingly give full invoices). And it is also necessary to have full, receipted, invoices if you want to offset costs against any tax liability.   Will intentionally blank signature http://www.vienormande.com    Report

15/11/2007, 9:06 LesFlamands Joined on 10/09/2004 24 Posts 235 Re: Invoices from French Business (operated by an English couple)  Will wrote: Nobody is compelled to give estimates, invoices, receipts etc AFAIK. If the work is more than 150 Euros?? we are legally obliged to have a signed estimate/contract Regards   Charles    Report

15/11/2007, 11:28 Will Joined on 22/09/2004 Sussex & 50 (Mortainais) Posts 4,733 Re: Invoices from French Business (operated by an English couple) I am sure you are right Charles, but as with so many 'legal obligations' how could it ever be enforced? I totally agree with your original point that without detailed paperwork how can anything be decided - by either party - in a dispute? Maybe I should have said that if you accept a job done without an estimate and then accept a short invoice then you can't really enforce things at a later date. Although it's in everybody's interests to do things properly, for various reasons people often take short cuts. Will intentionally blank signature http://www.vienormande.com    Report

Page 1 of 3 (20 items) 1 2 3 >

France Forum » Owning/Running ... » French Artisans » Invoices from French Business (operated by an English couple)

(Quick links) Forums Home |- Search Forums |- Active Topics |- Unanswered Posts User Options |- Sign In |- Join this community |- Forgot Password About This Forum (READ ONLY) |- About This Forum Moving |- Finding/Owning French Property |- Making the Move From Outside the EU |- Long-Term Letting |- Employment Vacancies in France Legal and Finance |- French Legal Issues |- French Finance Building and Renovation |- House Renovations |-- Working with Wood Living |- Earning a Living |- Driving |- French Education |- Pets |- Animal Welfare, Rescue & Protection |- French Satellite TV, French Internet and Telephone |- Health |-- Changes to Healthcare Entitlement, CPAM, CMU and Cartes Vitales |- Swimming Pools in France Owning/Running a Business |- French Artisans |- Gite Owners |- Hotel and Restaurant Owners |- B&B/Chambres d'Hôtes Owners Leisure and Pastimes |- Gardening |- Sport, Leisure and Pastimes |- Shopping |- French Antiques, Arts & Crafts |- Photography |- Motorcycling in France |- Books and Literature |- Getting Married in France |- Pregnancy and Birth French Culture |- French Food and Wine |- French Culture |- French Language |-- French Language FAQs and Useful Links |- Wildlife/Nature/Environment |- French History Travelling to/from France |- Travelling to/from France |- Latest Good Value Deals to/from France Holidays |- Holidays General Discussion |- The Complete France Post Bag |- The Lighter Side |- Other Topics |- Forum Technical Support |- Useful Links About France/French Living Regions |- HOTEL SEARCH |- Central |- North East |- North West |- Paris Ile de France |- South East |- South West |- East |- West |- Corsica and DOM-TOMs